Getting Involved

[MJS]

How many of you, if you happened to come upon a situation such as a disturbance between people, etc., would get involved in trying to resolve the situation? Reading another thread, the poster stated that he was involved in a road rage incident, and there were a few bystanders that did nothing to assist him.

IMO, I think that it would be best to be cautious as to how far you got involved, due to the fact that the people could turn on you, now making you the victim. This has happened many times when a LEO responds to a domestic. They make an attempt to arrest the husband and suddenly his wife forgets that she had just been a punching bag for the last couple of minutes and now turns on the cop.

Many times in areas that have a high crime rate, people may not want to get involved if they see a crime in progress out of fear of retaliation.

Personally, if I was going to get involved, I may be more inclined to pick up my cell phone, call the police and give them solid details as to whats happening.

What would you do?

Mike

 

[Jenna]

How many of you, if you happened to come upon a situation such as a disturbance between people, etc., would get involved in trying to resolve the situation? Reading another thread, the poster stated that he was involved in a road rage incident, and there were a few bystanders that did nothing to assist him.

IMO, I think that it would be best to be cautious as to how far you got involved, due to the fact that the people could turn on you, now making you the victim. This has happened many times when a LEO responds to a domestic. They make an attempt to arrest the husband and suddenly his wife forgets that she had just been a punching bag for the last couple of minutes and now turns on the cop.

Many times in areas that have a high crime rate, people may not want to get involved if they see a crime in progress out of fear of retaliation.

Personally, if I was going to get involved, I may be more inclined to pick up my cell phone, call the police and give them solid details as to whats happening.

What would you do?

Mike

Hey Mike my friend personally I do not believe I could give a clear yes-or-no answer to this.. I have given assistance to a number of girlfriends on occasion.. yep THOSE Saturday night occasions.. and likewise I have been helped myself on one occasion by folk who were nothing to me but yet saw fit to intervene on my behalf.. And so I think the qualifying factor for me is time.. where there is time to evaluate a situation it is easy to see potential dangers or on the other hand.. acceptable risks.. though time is not always ours .. nor is it always on the side of the person at the receiving end in these situations and I would absolutely forgive ANYONE for rushing into a situation instinctively to assist and NOT thinking on the repercussions and hazards.. yes I would NEVER berate this person nor claim they were foolish because though we are trained a certain way.. to think first.. still we are forever creatures of instinct and that instinct I will say runs deep and is not always mindful of passing carefully through the gates of logic we set up before it.

But of course there is a flip side to this coin and I have heard before of someone intervening and not realising they were actually intervening on behalf of the "attacker".. things are not always as they appear and of course I am always reminded of the headteacher Philip Lawrence who was stabbed to death intervening on behalf of one of his pupils at a W.London school not that far from where I was a pupil myself at the time 10 odd years ago...

Cellphones are a great invention if time is on everyones side though I suspect a call made on a cellphone may not bring the immediate help that is needed thus making the question even more pertinent.. which service to you require: police or ambulance?

but all I am saying is that fighting logic is well and good but there is not always time for clever queen-takes-rook evaluations...

I hope this is making a little sense..

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[MJS]

Hey Mike my friend personally I do not believe I could give a clear yes-or-no answer to this.. I have given assistance to a number of girlfriends on occasion.. yep THOSE Saturday night occasions.. and likewise I have been helped myself on one occasion by folk who were nothing to me but yet saw fit to intervene on my behalf.. And so I think the qualifying factor for me is time.. where there is time to evaluate a situation it is easy to see potential dangers or on the other hand.. acceptable risks.. though time is not always ours .. nor is it always on the side of the person at the receiving end in these situations and I would absolutely forgive ANYONE for rushing into a situation instinctively to assist and NOT thinking on the repercussions and hazards.. yes I would NEVER berate this person nor claim they were foolish because though we are trained a certain way.. to think first.. still we are forever creatures of instinct and that instinct I will say runs deep and is not always mindful of passing carefully through the gates of logic we set up before it.

Hey Jenna! Glad to hear that someone gave you some assistance and likewise, that you went to the aid of your friends.:ultracool

But of course there is a flip side to this coin and I have heard before of someone intervening and not realising they were actually intervening on behalf of the "attacker".. things are not always as they appear and of course I am always reminded of the headteacher Philip Lawrence who was stabbed to death intervening on behalf of one of his pupils at a W.London school not that far from where I was a pupil myself at the time 10 odd years ago...

Yes, thats exactly what I was talking about. Innocent person loses his life for doing what he thought was right.

Cellphones are a great invention if time is on everyones side though I suspect a call made on a cellphone may not bring the immediate help that is needed thus making the question even more pertinent.. which service to you require: police or ambulance?

The person on the other end of the phone, ie: dispatcher, police officer, etc., should be asking the proper questions in order to determine what type of response to send. First and foremost though, the police should be sent. Medical responders most likely will not enter a scene like that until the police have secured the area.

Mike

 

[Jenna]

The person on the other end of the phone, ie: dispatcher, police officer, etc., should be asking the proper questions in order to determine what type of response to send. First and foremost though, the police should be sent. Medical responders most likely will not enter a scene like that until the police have secured the area.

Mike

Hey Mike my learned friend well I certainly appreciate what the medical responders do BELIEVE ME I do... but my only concern is not on the part of the emergency dispatchers or folk but on the unavoidable delay between your cell call and their eventual arrival.. from what I have seen things can go bad in an odd slow way... you know what I mean.. the sort where you can sense a building up to something.. these are usually the Saturday night alco-fuelled ones and calling the police is the most expedient solution.. and where I am the cops are usually on the streets at chucking out time anyway.. but when these things go REALLY bad .. the more serious ones I mean.. they seem to do so in a bit of a hurry and so my concern would be that if this was YOU or one of your family God forbid.. on the receiving end.. would you prefer an onlooker to dial for help or get in there risk themselves perhaps?

For me.. callous or ungrateful as it might sound.. if someone I care for was faring badly against an attacker and an onlooker came along and.. faced with a choice of cellphone or direct action made the call and retreated to their own safety.. well while I understand this absolutely I do.. at the same time I would have trouble reconciling their choice to the injury suffered to the person I care for if that makes any sense..

Sorry.. I hope that does not come across aggresssive but I think it is easy to be aloof from a theoretical standpoint but for me cellphone or mobile calls when other options to end a conflict may be available are almost akin to doing nothing...sorry I am really sorry if that sounds all wrong..

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Grenadier]

Sometimes, it's an open and shut case. For example, if you see a rapist assaulting a woman, or if a grownup is physically beating a child to a pulp. Maybe the bad guys are wearing ski masks (poor example, but it does get the point across). In these cases, I would certainly consider intervening.

However, many times, it's not certain as to what the situation is. There have been quite a few occurrences where a good Samaritan sees one guy beating up another guy, and tries to intervene, tackling the guy on top who appears to be beating up the other guy, only to find out that the guy on the bottom had tried to rob him earlier. Other times, you might not know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. Maybe one of the people involved is an undercover law enforcement officer, or perhaps they're both gangbangers trying to kill each other. In these cases, where there's some doubt, it's best not to intervene.

One way or the other, though, call the police if at all possible. By calling them first, you've established that YOU called them first. If you do intervene (justified), and beat the bad guy to a pulp, or shoot him, and don't call the police, it can look bad if the bad guy calls the police and claims that you went berserk on him. While most police can smell through the garbage that such a character would spew, you never know...

 

[MJS]

Hey Mike my learned friend well I certainly appreciate what the medical responders do BELIEVE ME I do... but my only concern is not on the part of the emergency dispatchers or folk but on the unavoidable delay between your cell call and their eventual arrival.. from what I have seen things can go bad in an odd slow way... you know what I mean.. the sort where you can sense a building up to something.. these are usually the Saturday night alco-fuelled ones and calling the police is the most expedient solution.. and where I am the cops are usually on the streets at chucking out time anyway.. but when these things go REALLY bad .. the more serious ones I mean.. they seem to do so in a bit of a hurry and so my concern would be that if this was YOU or one of your family God forbid.. on the receiving end.. would you prefer an onlooker to dial for help or get in there risk themselves perhaps?

For me.. callous or ungrateful as it might sound.. if someone I care for was faring badly against an attacker and an onlooker came along and.. faced with a choice of cellphone or direct action made the call and retreated to their own safety.. well while I understand this absolutely I do.. at the same time I would have trouble reconciling their choice to the injury suffered to the person I care for if that makes any sense..

Yes, I certainly know what you're saying, and yes, when you're faced with a stressfull situation, it can see like forever before help arrives. To answer your question, if I was faced with a situation like you mention, then yes, I'd hope that someone would be kind enough to give some assistance. If they did not feel comfortable getting physically involved, and I certainly wouldn't hold that against them, I'd at least hope that they'd make that call.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Sometimes, it's an open and shut case. For example, if you see a rapist assaulting a woman, or if a grownup is physically beating a child to a pulp. Maybe the bad guys are wearing ski masks (poor example, but it does get the point across). In these cases, I would certainly consider intervening.

Yes, I think that the situation at the time would determine if I got physically involved or made the call.

However, many times, it's not certain as to what the situation is. There have been quite a few occurrences where a good Samaritan sees one guy beating up another guy, and tries to intervene, tackling the guy on top who appears to be beating up the other guy, only to find out that the guy on the bottom had tried to rob him earlier. Other times, you might not know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. Maybe one of the people involved is an undercover law enforcement officer, or perhaps they're both gangbangers trying to kill each other. In these cases, where there's some doubt, it's best not to intervene.

Good point! Thats the fine line that we have to decide if we're going to cross or not.

One way or the other, though, call the police if at all possible. By calling them first, you've established that YOU called them first. If you do intervene (justified), and beat the bad guy to a pulp, or shoot him, and don't call the police, it can look bad if the bad guy calls the police and claims that you went berserk on him. While most police can smell through the garbage that such a character would spew, you never know...

Agreed!

Mike

 

[bluemtn]

I'd use my cell phone first, and the rest is timing and need.

 

[matt.m]

I have intervened in the case of a man hitting a woman on a few occassions. I have gotten between two guys getting ready to fight before as well.....This was done more during my time in the Marine Corps. It was more acceptable, I was a Sergeant and had authority.

In the civilian world I have been an intervener for the woman being a punching bag, however I am much more inclined now to get on the cell phone and call the police in every other scenerio.

 

[still learning]

Hello, If the Samoans and Hawaiian were fighting each other....best to stay way way out of there.

But for all others...maybe help break up the fights...Aloha

 

[Toby]

Depends on the situation...

I've been in between two guys who wanted to fight eachother, tried breaking it up... It worked (but then later on they were at it again).

And on this past Saturday night this guy and my brother were mucking around (to start with) then this guy pushed my brother over and kind of pinned to the ground, so I got involved...

Then yeah, the guy focused on me, threatining to kill me (second time). I just shoved him back, then my brother got up and grabbed this guy and wouldn't let him go, I tried breaking it up (getting my brother off the guy, but also going off at the guy at the same time).

It ended when one of our mates came up and smacked the guy in the face... gave him a nice black eye.

When we told Dad about it, he asked why I tried getting my brother off this guy, as if I should of let them go at it... I'm wondering whether or not I should of now?

I felt like giving the guy a good smack in the teeth myself. If it happens again, I'm going to. Third time lucky.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I would getinvolved tro some degree..starting by listening in to see if the situation warrented anything more. I would hate to be in fear for my life or safety and have no-one come to my aid for fear of 'getting involved' so I would like to be ready of someone needed me, but the first line is just being aware of what's going on.

This happened to me a few weeks ago at a jazz club where a couple of guys came in already drunk and got drunker until they started getting obnoxious and loud and almost came to blows with each other over stupid things. I didnt do anything, but I was very close to what was going on, very attentive to what they were doing, and ready to move if need be to keep them from hurthing themselves or each other. (There was no security in presence as this club other than recording cameras, which I was also well aware of in the sense that I knew anything I did would be on tape so I better make sure not to overreact). As I said, nothing came of it but it easily could've, and I just paid close attention so I knew what they were doing to keep them from hurting themselves doing something stupid

 

[pstarr]

My first inclination would be to call 911. After that, I would assess the situation to see if any involvement is warranted- but these kinds of situations have to approached very carefully. As a former police officer, I know better than to just jump in blindly.

 

[Rich Parsons]

How many of you, if you happened to come upon a situation such as a disturbance between people, etc., would get involved in trying to resolve the situation? Reading another thread, the poster stated that he was involved in a road rage incident, and there were a few bystanders that did nothing to assist him.

IMO, I think that it would be best to be cautious as to how far you got involved, due to the fact that the people could turn on you, now making you the victim. This has happened many times when a LEO responds to a domestic. They make an attempt to arrest the husband and suddenly his wife forgets that she had just been a punching bag for the last couple of minutes and now turns on the cop.

Many times in areas that have a high crime rate, people may not want to get involved if they see a crime in progress out of fear of retaliation.

Personally, if I was going to get involved, I may be more inclined to pick up my cell phone, call the police and give them solid details as to whats happening.

What would you do?

Mike

Domestics are the worst.

Yet I saw a woman struggling in a car, I turned so my headlights pointed at tehm and stopped. I then opened my door. the guy looked at me she was able to get out of the passenger door, and run for the house and I even heard it lock with the dead bolt. I then got in my car and backed up the street so as not to pass him.

I have gotten involved, other times I have passed by depending upon who was with me. If women or children were with me I called on a cell phone or stopped later to call. Yes I would things differently with Women versus Men present. Also it would depend upon the men present with me.

I have also been lucky enough to take away a knife from a person just to have the police roll into the parking lot with their lights on me at that moment. Lots of talking that night with lots of witnesses that explained they were not cut from the knife but when we all went through the front plate window. Yes this was a working issue, but I got involved to stop a group from swinging on one of my female employees.

The police told me I should have let them hit her and called them. I then asked him if that is what he would want for his daughter and or wife. And two of the older Sergeants took over and were a little bit more reasonable even though it was a very long night.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

If I have the meansd to get help on the phone first, I will do so. If during that call it becomes blatantly obvious to me that if I do not help, someone will die, I'd like to hope I'd intervene in the most tactically sound manner available to me, on the same token, I'm also not the cops and I'm not gonna pretend to be.


Thing to remember most of all though, is that if you are not there to see the situation begin, you do not know the situation.

 

[Kacey]

If I have the meansd to get help on the phone first, I will do so. If during that call it becomes blatantly obvious to me that if I do not help, someone will die, I'd like to hope I'd intervene in the most tactically sound manner available to me, on the same token, I'm also not the cops and I'm not gonna pretend to be.


Thing to remember most of all though, is that if you are not there to see the situation begin, you do not know the situation.

Truly spoken. There are many ways to intervene, and not all of them are as direct as some of the situations given. If you don't know how a confrontation started, it could easily end in an unexpected fashion as well. Are there times I would intervene personally? Yes - but they are too situational for me to give a specific situation. I have intervened on occasion - for example, a fight started between a pair of girls at the middle school where I teach (and you've never seen a fight until you see a pair of 14 year-old girls in a cat fight - boys aren't nearly such dirty fighters - and they were both taller and heavier than me) and my referee training kicked in, and I jumped between them with my hands out pushing them apart yelling "BREAK... it up!" I didn't even think about it; it was pure reaction. They were so startled they fell on the floor (luckily, in opposite directions - and even then, they tried to start it again through me). But it all depends on the situation, and there are too many variables to be able to give a straight answer on "I will intervene physically here, but not here; here, I will make a phone call; here I will walk away and mind my own business; etc."