Flash Mobs and race

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Archangel M, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. RandomPhantom700

    RandomPhantom700 Master of Arts

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    Let's go with your example then: rape. Who cares why people rape, right? It's a criminal act, so we should just shoot those who commit it. Well, for starters, knowing what general factors lead to rape occurring can help policy-makers and law enforcement in predicting and possibly combatting its frequency. Also, a person committing rape because it gives them a feeling of power is a very different indicator from a person committing rape because the victim looked so hot and was just irresistable. Only in the second situation would a victim's choice of clothing possibly have had anything to do with leading to the rape. (And before anyone tries it, no I'm not saying we should blame the victim. It's just an example of what difference motivation can have.)

    Or how about drug use? Why people use drugs is a pretty damn good indicator of how the DEA and State agencies can properly combat its use, predict where potential buyers will crop up, and what type of criminal response scenarios are likely to involve suspects who are high.

    I think the fundamental difference, though, is that your attempt to dismiss the motivations behind criminal acts, or to say that their motives don't matter, is an attempt to put a false barrier between "them" and "us". If we ignore the motivation behind crime and only react to crimes, "they" are just going to continue appearing among "us".
     
  2. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    it is more a matter of "i am not interested in giving them an excuse"
     
  3. RandomPhantom700

    RandomPhantom700 Master of Arts

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    Saying that race has something to do with it is not to say that it excuses the behavior. Also, "being a jerk", or more accurately "acting like a jerk", most often has causes of its own. People are not born criminals; at best, their genetics give them propensities. The idea that criminals are just criminals by nature is a poor attempt to comfort ourselves into believing that it could never happen to us or ours.
     
  4. RandomPhantom700

    RandomPhantom700 Master of Arts

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    Neither am I.
     
  5. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    In essence human nature is selfish. Civilization and culture, along with self-restraint make people polite enough to live with. As to being vs acting like, I disagree, some people refuse to comply with social mores to the point that they are only acting when they are not being jerks.
     
  6. RandomPhantom700

    RandomPhantom700 Master of Arts

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    Generally speaking, I agree with this part. I will only point out that self-restraint, like any other aspect of one's personality, is a result of both nature and nurture. Which again, and I'm bolding for TF's sake, DOES NOT MAKE AN EXCUSE FOR IT!

    Ok, so? I've no doubt that there are many who only behave on this forum because they don't want to be hit by the banhammer. My only contention is that there is no point at which we can say "ok, that person isn't human anymore, he's just a monster and we can ignore his motivations". Sorry, but even the most heinous of criminals is still human and had some psychology behind their choices. Understanding that psychology can yield a lot of information, and (again, bolded for Twin Fist), DOES NOT EXCUSE THEIR BEHAVIOR OR NEGATE THEIR CHOICE!
     
  7. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    arent there certain classes of criminals that simply do not have compassion wired into them? they are not really "human" are they? they have no motivations, they do what they want to because they want to. i dont know
     
  8. MA-Caver

    MA-Caver Sr. Grandmaster

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    Same here (giving them an excuse)
     
  9. RandomPhantom700

    RandomPhantom700 Master of Arts

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    Those are sociopaths. My layman's understanding is that they literally lack the ability to feel any type of sympathy, empathy, compassion, or other connection with other people. In the sociopath's mind, he or she is literally the only person in the world; all other humans are just really smart monkies.

    They are also, from what little I know on the subject, pretty rare; someone acting heartlessly doesn't in itself make that person a sociopath. A teenager going through, well, teenaging doesn't make them a sociopath either. And even sociopaths are humans, which has kinda been my point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  10. MA-Caver

    MA-Caver Sr. Grandmaster

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    Lumping in "poor people" as followers of "thug life" is a misnomer and an mistaken assumption. Just because someone is poor, destitute, jobless but NOT out robbing people, stealing from stores, bilking the system, and so on does not a thug make. Remember that there are those from middle and upper classes who lead a double life being a thug. It's just for some reason we don't read about 'em in the paper because they're not generally stereotyped. I'm unemployed now for 7 months straight... yet I haven't robbed any stores or people or stolen cars or selling dope or whatever... am I a thug? Because I'm sure as hell am POOR!

    And pray tell just WHO determines how anyone should behave? You? Me? Bob H? Billy Graham? Dali Lama? Who pray tell makes that determination of how one other should live? And then answer by what RIGHT do they have to tell another person how to behave as they ought to? Does anyone tell YOU how to behave? I mean outside your job/employment.
    I've said that society has written most of our laws based on what the majority desires to live comfortably, safely and respectfully. Someone acts outside those boundaries is going to pay the consequences of it. That is with ANY society on this planet. It's what THEY deem to be right. We'll gravitate towards the groups that best match our own philosophy of how we should live and co-exist with one another.
    Very true that. Ted Bundy got away with a lot. Same with some other infamous white collar criminals.

    I know what you're saying just adding on that it's still the perp's choice to select that hottie with the short-short pants and loose tank-top walking down the street and turning into an alleyway for a short-cut home because the perp had already decided to get some sex by any means necessary. The hottie had no intention of drawing attention to herself... except maybe some cute guys she knows on her block who might playfully flirt with her... or simply she was just too lazy to do her laundry and what she was wearing was the only thing she had clean to wear to the store to buy more laundry soap.
    Irony of it that Iran and other muslim countries require their women to cover their bodies up completely but the women still end up getting raped, by their husbands or brothers in law when they're home. So how a woman dresses isn't going to be an invitation to have at her.

    Yet don't they target specific economic classes more often than others? A lady I know lives in the projects with her teenage daughter. There are more cops in cars I've seen there than any other part of the city where I live. Hmmm, the potential is frightening.

    Finding out WHY people do the things that they do is a job for psychologists and sociologists not for LEO's. Though they may study the topics to have a better understanding of the people they're arresting, they've got a lot on the plate to worry about the whys... or that they simply DO see WHY but don't have the time, training to deal with it.
    Agreed there are no excuses... a person makes a choice based on a series of thoughts, actions and feelings. Why they chose that particular route stems from those three. Understanding the reason does help. They still gotta pay the consequences based on our laws but hopefully help can be given to them so that (again) hopefully they won't repeat or threepeat.

    Again agreed. Yet we can prevent them from making the same choice again and again. So locking them away or putting them out of OUR misery for the moment is the viable solution... if therapy, counseling and harsh punishment doesn't change their thinking/feelings which lead them to those unfortunate choices.

    Unfortunate... for us.
     
  11. MA-Caver

    MA-Caver Sr. Grandmaster

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    Related news article. Read on.
    Related snippets
    Sooo, it's just a matter of time. Unless something can be done radically altering the fate of these kids growing up and learning from the so-called thugs of their neighborhood... the problem will get worse exponentially.
     
  12. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    i didnt lump them together. You can be poor and obey the law, or rich and a thug
     
  13. SensibleManiac

    SensibleManiac Black Belt

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    Wired into them?

    If by this you mean it's not in their dna then no, the way people behave is mostly learned and dependent on their environment, this doesn't excuse this type of behaviour, only gives a reason for it.

    Compassion just like a lack of it are mostly learned.
     
  14. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    We live in a society that generally romanticizes criminal behavior, and embraces the criminal ideology of getting away with it. We cheer on thieves and scoundrels in movies like The Hot Rock, The Italian Job, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, The Thomas Crown Affair, Oceans Eleven, The Score, and Entrapment, just off the top of my head. We enjoy seeing people commit criminal acts of violence in others, and have rooted for murder plots since Alec Guiness played seven roles in Kind Hearts and Coronets , way back in 1950 (a great British black-comedy, and worth seeing again!). Over herein the U.S., we've romanticized vicious real world criminals like John "the dapper Don" Gotti, John Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, and Bugsy Siegel-to name just a few, all the way back to Jesse James and Billy the Kid. Here in the U.S., anyway, it's part of our heritage.

    I'm not even going to get into the whole "mob mentality" thing, except to point out that the looters apprehended for the recent rioting in London included a school worker, a postman, a millionaire's daughter, a lifeguard and a charity worker.

    It's not cultural or racial-it's human.
     
  15. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    i agree

    but

    the mobs in question DO share culture (seemingly)and race.
     
  16. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    :rolleyes:

    So, seemingly, did this one.Guess "flash mobs" are a white invention....:lol: :rolleyes: (Since as the conversation is about "flash mobs and race, " anyway...)
     

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  17. billc

    billc Grandmaster

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    Hmmm...it may escape Janeane Garafalo, but I would wager a princely sum that the people in that photo voted for democrats at the time that picture was taken, that the people who did this horrible thing were democrats and the police who obviously stood by were democrats and if those responsible went to trial, the jury that let them walk was composed of democrats. So, Janeane Garafalo, who continues the myth that republicans belong to a party of racists, needs to look back into American History to see where the racists have always found a political home.

    To get a good look at mob violence, take a look at Ann Coulter's new book, "Demonic," which discusses mob violence in American history.
     
  18. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    :rolleyes:

    WHile the police were complicit in this event, the only one who was tried for it was another young black man who escaped lynching, and was convicted of being an accessory to murder and served four years in prison.This lynchng is noted as the last to take place in a northern state, and it took place on Aug. 12, 1930, in Marion, Indiana. A Republican stronghold since the days of Lincoln......:lfao:

    [yt]POX4YSnxjro[/yt]
     
  19. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    you gotta go back 70 years to try and stay relevant?

     
  20. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Modern humans have been on the planet for about 200,000 years. Since my entire point was that this was human behavior, all examples from human history would be relevant.123
     

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