Fighting in schools

[oftheherd1]

After I put the post I took a look saw a couple of schools that had martial arts but most were part of an after school component like sports. There was one school that had a martial arts class during normal school hours and they stated that those who took the class had a reduction in aggressive behavior compared to those who did not take the class. I should have bookmarked that page. I was hoping to find more statistics but there's not much on it in terms of school having martial arts programs.

Some schools seem to fear litigation for any number of possible scenarios, from likely to improbable. I once offered the local school system the opportunity to have my Grand Master teach. He was experienced in teaching Hapkido in high schools. They didn't want it as part of the curriculum, nor even as an after hours program. I don't know if they considered any benefits, but they sure found a lot of concerns.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Some schools seem to fear litigation for any number of possible scenarios, from likely to improbable. I once offered the local school system the opportunity to have my Grand Master teach. He was experienced in teaching Hapkido in high schools. They didn't want it as part of the curriculum, nor even as an after hours program. I don't know if they considered any benefits, but they sure found a lot of concerns.

I think it's stupid they say about risks when they have sports like American football and rugby much more dangerous than martial arts in my opinion

 

[mograph]

I wonder ... if your cousin had shoved the aggressor away (using the wall behind as leverage), would that have been seen as less combative by the authorities?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some schools seem to fear litigation for any number of possible scenarios, from likely to improbable. I once offered the local school system the opportunity to have my Grand Master teach. He was experienced in teaching Hapkido in high schools. They didn't want it as part of the curriculum, nor even as an after hours program. I don't know if they considered any benefits, but they sure found a lot of concerns.

This is unfortunate since Martial Arts has a lot to offer and it doesn't always have to be about fighting. There are so many approaches that can be taken with Martial Art. If they are afraid that someone will use it to fight then, put a Tai Chi class since that takes years to learn how to actually use in fighting.

 

[Zumorito]

I mean if the other guy was the other side of the room and yelled at him he was going to smash him I'm not saying it'd be right for him to run across the room and start beating him up but when someone's in your face being aggressive then says that I think that gives you a right to attack first because they're in close proximity in an aggressive situation and threatening violence.

No; just because someone is in your face and threatening you, is not a good enough of a reason to attack first. It's a juvenile reason, which, in this case was an understandable response seeing as he is indeed a juvenile. Nonetheless, it would have been better for him to smile sweetly and cheerfully ask the aggressor, "Do you want a pineapple?!" If he says something along the lines of "No, I don't want a stupid pineapple." then the kid should have just shrugged, and replied "Suit yourself!" while walking away on his merry little trail to leave the bully in a flurry of confusion, disorientation, and utter dissatisfaction in not getting to raise any excitement in this boring old middle-school. XD

 

[hoshin1600]

Take the kid out to a movie, pizza and ice cream. Tell him life sucks he did the right thing and move on.

 

[Kickboxer101]

No; just because someone is in your face and threatening you, is not a good enough of a reason to attack first. It's a juvenile reason, which, in this case was an understandable response seeing as he is indeed a juvenile. Nonetheless, it would have been better for him to smile sweetly and cheerfully ask the aggressor, "Do you want a pineapple?!" If he says something along the lines of "No, I don't want a stupid pineapple." then the kid should have just shrugged, and replied "Suit yourself!" while walking away on his merry little trail to leave the bully in a flurry of confusion, disorientation, and utter dissatisfaction in not getting to raise any excitement in this boring old middle-school. XD

Well since he couldn't walk along on his merry little way since he was pinned against the wall and no sorry but it's not juevinalle at all. What happens if that same thing happens in an alley at 1 in the morning outside a nightclub if you just stand there with your hands behind your back and a guys got you pinned to a wall being aggressive and threatens to kill you do you just stand there? If you do that you may end with a knife in you

 

[Tez3]

No; just because someone is in your face and threatening you, is not a good enough of a reason to attack first. It's a juvenile reason, which, in this case was an understandable response seeing as he is indeed a juvenile. Nonetheless, it would have been better for him to smile sweetly and cheerfully ask the aggressor, "Do you want a pineapple?!" If he says something along the lines of "No, I don't want a stupid pineapple." then the kid should have just shrugged, and replied "Suit yourself!" while walking away on his merry little trail to leave the bully in a flurry of confusion, disorientation, and utter dissatisfaction in not getting to raise any excitement in this boring old middle-school. XD

The tone of this is correct even if that action wouldn't have been so appropriate in the case of the OP, de-escalation, 'verbal Judo' and throwing the bully/attacker off track is a good first action. Much of what bullies do is to raise a reaction, they hope it's fear but if they don't get the rise or reaction they want they will often back off, if they don't then you have the option of reasonable violence, better to try other options first.

 

[Paul_D]

No; just because someone is in your face and threatening you, is not a good enough of a reason to attack first. It's a juvenile reason, which, in this case was an understandable response seeing as he is indeed a juvenile. Nonetheless, it would have been better for him to smile sweetly and cheerfully ask the aggressor, "Do you want a pineapple?!" If he says something along the lines of "No, I don't want a stupid pineapple." then the kid should have just shrugged, and replied "Suit yourself!" while walking away on his merry little trail to leave the bully in a flurry of confusion, disorientation, and utter dissatisfaction in not getting to raise any excitement in this boring old middle-school. XD

The bully had him pinned ot the wall, he was slapping him and threatening him with violence, and you think he is not justified in defending himself?

To paraphrase Lee Morrison, How more information than that do you need to know you need to do something?

 

[Tez3]

The bully had him pinned ot the wall, he was slapping him and threatening him with violence, and you think he is not justified in defending himself?

To paraphrase Lee Morrison, How more information than that do you need to know you need to do something?

So my younger cousin who's 12 got into a fight at school the other day he was getting picked on by this kid in his class and the kid was pushing him and slapping him and threatening him.he then said he was going to smash his face I so my cousin punched him in the face and they got into a fight and got separated. But my cousin got in trouble because he threw the first /punch/ even though the other kid was slapping him and pushing him it was only the punch that they took notice about which to me is ridiculous. Also the fact he threatened him with physical violence as well.

QUOTE]


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Actually the OP doesn't say his cousin was pinned to the wall.
Now whether he could have de-escalated the situation is now moot but it's certainly the first thing to reach for before using violence, this is why I said the post was the right tone if not the right action for that particular situation.

 

[Buka]

I think a school teacher is the most under appreciated, under paid, most difficult job job in the United States. And the single most important, bar none. Our kids - are our future.

School fighting happens. Always has, but it has to be kept in check. Fighting back, even when striking first, is a fact of life. I don't envy anyone dealing with it, it's a tough nut.

I worked in Boston Public Schools for years. I'm familiar with school fighting, but in a different way. It happened every single day for years, hundreds of kids at a time, adults, too. It was during the desegregation of Boston schools through forced busing. It's the ugliest term in my memory.
And it looked like this.

May all your children, and your friend's children, be safe.

 

[Buka]

Uh oh, I busted something.

(Ah, fixed it. Hey, guys, what image hosting site can you recommend?)

 

[JR 137]

I wanted to do karate as a unit when I was teaching Phys Ed. The department chair, who's a good friend and great colleague said its a great idea, but the administration would never go for it. With his blessing, I asked the principal. He thought it would lead to bullying during the class, much like dodgeball, and it would be forcing kids to do a high risk activity against their own will. I explained that just like dodgeball (and everything else), it's the teacher's job to set the tone and make sure it's not tolerated. I'm a professional educator who knows what to look for, how to minimize the chances, and how to stop it immediately before it gets out of hand. He genuinely liked and respected my response, but said if I wanted to do karate and/or dodgeball, it would have to be after school. A voluntary activity such as those is fine; mandating them in class isn't.

I get where he was coming from. Forcing a kid who fits the bully's target profile to spar against say, the kid who just got a Div I basketball scholarship could cause some serious anxiety. I wouldn't allow contact during sparring, just moving and practicing blocking slow and controlled punches and kicks that won't land.

I'm pretty sure he was far more concerned with parents' and students' perceptions and dealing with them than what actually would've happened. And add to that the absurdity he'd have to deal with if a kid got hurt.

It seems like every time someone gets hurt, the activity gets banned. A kid tripped over another kid's floor hockey stick and fell into the bleachers, requiring stitches. No more floor hockey. A kid walked into the backswing of another student when we were doing golf. Golf was banned. The best part about that one was it was it was 10 minutes into the first golf lesson ever at that school, and the teacher had just finished telling the kids to stay behind a line 10 feet away for the 3rd time. $3k worth of golf clubs, bags, balls etc. thrown out by the end of the day. Tax dollars at work. All of this was at a high school level, so the kids knew better. I kept saying there will be a day when we're only allowed to let kids walk (not run) around the track because every other activity got banned due to injuries.

 

[mograph]

Uh oh, I busted something.

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I wanted to do karate as a unit when I was teaching Phys Ed. The department chair, who's a good friend and great colleague said its a great idea, but the administration would never go for it. With his blessing, I asked the principal. He thought it would lead to bullying during the class, much like dodgeball, and it would be forcing kids to do a high risk activity against their own will. I explained that just like dodgeball (and everything else), it's the teacher's job to set the tone and make sure it's not tolerated. I'm a professional educator who knows what to look for, how to minimize the chances, and how to stop it immediately before it gets out of hand. He genuinely liked and respected my response, but said if I wanted to do karate and/or dodgeball, it would have to be after school. A voluntary activity such as those is fine; mandating them in class isn't.

I get where he was coming from. Forcing a kid who fits the bully's target profile to spar against say, the kid who just got a Div I basketball scholarship could cause some serious anxiety. I wouldn't allow contact during sparring, just moving and practicing blocking slow and controlled punches and kicks that won't land.

I'm pretty sure he was far more concerned with parents' and students' perceptions and dealing with them than what actually would've happened. And add to that the absurdity he'd have to deal with if a kid got hurt.

It seems like every time someone gets hurt, the activity gets banned. A kid tripped over another kid's floor hockey stick and fell into the bleachers, requiring stitches. No more floor hockey. A kid walked into the backswing of another student when we were doing golf. Golf was banned. The best part about that one was it was it was 10 minutes into the first golf lesson ever at that school, and the teacher had just finished telling the kids to stay behind a line 10 feet away for the 3rd time. $3k worth of golf clubs, bags, balls etc. thrown out by the end of the day. Tax dollars at work. All of this was at a high school level, so the kids knew better. I kept saying there will be a day when we're only allowed to let kids walk (not run) around the track because every other activity got banned due to injuries.

Did you do it after class then?

 

[lklawson]

he was slapping him and threatening him with ADDITIONAL violence

Fixed that for you.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JR 137]

Did you do it after class then?

I wanted to, but I had too many after school commitments to be able to.

 

[Tames D]

Well the good news for Kickboxer101's cousin is he probably won't have to worry about being bullied at that school again.
It should be a requirement to fight a bully very early in the school year just to get it out of the way .

 

[housemouse]

Actually the OP doesn't say his cousin was pinned to the wall.

The guy who made the op said he was pinned against the wall in a follow up post.

Well since he couldn't walk along on his merry little way since he was pinned against the wall and no sorry but it's not juevinalle at all.

Kid has you pinned against the wall and is pushing you and slapping you. You're totally in the wrong for not just taking the beating and reporting it later when the bully can just deny it. Hopefully you wont end up with any bruises or broken bones in the process.

 

[drop bear]

Ok. I have altered my opinion. Ask them if they want a pineapple. Then crack them.