False teaching and secret knowledge

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by turninghorse, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    If you win one fight with bare knuckles, that counts at least as 10 bare knuckle fights. That's because you have ten knuckles, right? If you take your shoes off too kick, you can count your toe knuckles too. If both participants are counted then forty knuckles would be involved. :D

    So if you beat up 30 pre-schoolers you could easily claim 300 bare knuckle victories and still not be much of a fighter.:p

    On the other hand, Emin in his prime was a frick'n beast ...whatever you think the count was. Even today I'd still run away from him if I pissed him off! :eek:
     
  2. Svarog

    Svarog White Belt

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    Having "secrets" today is actually funny. If MMA taught us anything , it is that "secrets" are worthless in real confrontation. Secrets are nothing else but another way to take more money from students. Problem is, if style isn't taught properly, there is sill a room for hiding something, on the other hand , if it is taught properly it will be impossible to hide something.
    About Cheung, I have been involved in his style for 6 or maybe more years. He is a cult leader, although all kung fu styles have some elements of cult like behavior, but his TWC is full blown cult. About his style, I am not sure it can be called Wing Chun , or kung fu , or martial style, because what he teaches has no real basic foundation. No concept of body structure, no concept of power generation. Many of the hand positions in his style and especially way of conditioning them seriously damage health. His teachings are superficial and honestly, insults for intelligence of average adult person. Over the years I had a lot of problems because I left that cult and was not afraid to tell what was going on while I was there. Everything from stalking me personally and my family and friends who are totally unrelated to martial arts what so ever, to death threats. If there is a person that personify all bad things in CMA , that is Cheung
     
  3. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Please refrain from "fraud-busting". Remember, It is prohibited on this forum. I'm not a fan of William Cheung either, but let's not engage in personal attacks. My old sifu, Leung Ting was Cheung's arch-rival back in the 80's. Then BJJ and MMA came on the scene and made their petty feud seem ...well pretty petty :p. IMO, Leung Ting had some really good "WingTsun" and he also had his flaws. Some big ones. So what? We are hear to discuss our martial arts, not attack individuals!

    So where are you know in your martial arts path? Are you still pursuing some branch of WC or moving in another direction?
     
  4. Svarog

    Svarog White Belt

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    I just shared my personal experience with Cheung, have no intention to fraud-bust him or anyone else. I have found old WC style without much outside influences, but these days I am more into white crane and Thai boxing
     
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  5. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Is it okay to divulge secrets on our forum? I hope so, hope I don't get in trouble for this....

    Psst....if you drop your hands you're going to get punched in the face.

    (Tell no-one!)
     
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  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you

    - run faster than your opponent, nobody can punch you.
    - lay down on the ground, nobody can throw you.
    - kill yourself, nobody can kill you.

    (Tell no-one!)
     
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  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    A: Why do you keep MA secret and not willing to share?
    B: I only want to pass my secret to my own children.
    A: But none of your children are interested in MA.

    A: Why did you publish a MA book with solo form only but without MA application in it?
    B: I want to keep MA application as secret.
    A: 100 years from today, people won't think that you try to hide secret. People will only think that you don't understand MA application.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  8. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Mr. Wang, do you feel there are really any 'secrets' left?
     
  9. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    Basic physics is a secret many will never understand.

    The real kung fu masters did, the fake ones didn't, and continue to not.

    How does a person decide? Combat.
     
  10. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    I agree basic physics can escape some people. But I believe that has more to do with how it (or any material) is presented. The simplest example I can think of is leverage. Trying to start out by solve the equation first and you are going to loose people. Sometimes they have no idea what the variables even are. The same is true in any leverage aspect of MA's I have ever seen.
    I am an engineer who grew up farming so I used levers before I was old enough to get the simplicity of them all mucked up with complex formulary used in physics equations.
    100% an area where the golden cookies need to be put on the bottom shelf.

    Therefore I cannot identify this as a 'secret'. Pretty common knowledge now a days. Understanding how to use the information is the key. So now we are back to how well the instructor is at teaching/presenting the material and how 'natural' certain aspects of the material are to a given person. Metaphysical.
     
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  11. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    A lot of things in martial arts take lots of repetition with frequent and often subtle corrections, to optimize. It takes a period of time doing this, before the skill really sets in and grows. Sometimes the path is not intuitive or does not meet with preconceived expectations.

    If someone isn’t prepared to make a commitment to the process, then there isn't much point in showing them snippets, because it will not be meaningful.

    In today’s instant gratification culture, people often are not prepared to make that commitment, or simply expect that they have a right to demand to be shown whatever they want to see, whether it is simply for their entertainment, or to make a quick “judgement” about a method.

    Some people aren’t willing to feed that mentality, and are not willing to share with those who are just tourists, not interested in making a commitment.

    This can be misinterpreted as keeping secrets.
     
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  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Someone once said, "I will ask 3 questions. If anybody can answer all 3 questions, I'll give him $10,000." Today the answer for all those 3 questions can be found online.

    This is one of those 3 questions, "What is tie?"

    [​IMG]
     
  13. wckf92

    wckf92 Master Black Belt

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    Are you referring to "bicep tie"?
     
  14. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    I would need much more reference since there are several meanings. My best guess since you are asking me from a MA forum is a bicep tie. Where is my money?;)
     
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I don't know what "bicep tie" is. "捆 (Kun) - tie" is a Chinese wrestling technique.

    The funny thing is if you are a striker, you can't careless about it. Even if you are a wrestler, to learn 1 less wrestling skill is not a big deal.

    Another one of those 3 questions is "3 sections body control". Can anybody guess what it may be?

    A: I know the secret formula of Coca-Cola.
    B: I don't drink anything with artificial flavor and artificial color in it.

    Something may be a secret to you. But it can be worthless to others.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
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  16. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    Here's a funny little secret captured in that little glyph easier to see when it is unpacked. 捆 was coded in 1976 by Chu Bong Fu's Cangjie system as "carrying logs in a field", because the hanzi represents carrying (and eventual implied binding) of wooden logs, specifically.

    捆 becomes 手田木.

    How do you pick up and carry a huge log by yourself? Fireman's carry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  17. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    "捆 (Kun) - tie" is to use one arm to control your opponent's waist, use the other hand to pull one of his legs.

    Here is another example of "tie".

    - You are behind your opponent.
    - You use right hand to control your opponent's right leg.
    - You use left hand to push on his waist (waist control), force him to step left leg forward.
    - You then pull his left leg (leg pull).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
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  18. nikthegreek_3

    nikthegreek_3 Yellow Belt

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    I totally agree about false teaching based on things that would never work. And i definitely agree that teaching "Active defenses" is the key to reveal the false teaching. As very clearly explained in this video:
    123
     

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