Steve
Mostly Harmless
Glad to hear it. I was confused because above yiou said it would not be a red flag for you.
Fake bjj black belt exposed
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kuniggety
2nd Black Belt
I wouldn't go to a school where no one competes even though I've never competed, if that makes any sense. As Steve has been saying, that competition acts as a calibration for the school. When I can hold my own against blues who are winning medals or survive against purples+ doing the same, then I know I'm where I want to be as a blue.
Please have some patience with an old man.
Visited a bunch, but I've only trained in one BJJ school for any length of time, and one other school where good BJJ was taught in conjunction with other forms of fighting arts. Both competed regularly. We (wife and I) never thought much of it, just another thing done for those that wanted to do it, which was sometimes us, sometimes not, depending on what else was going on in life.
So, this is a thing? Most BJJ schools compete? Pretty standard?
drop bear
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That article does a good job of explaining the reaction some (like Steve) have to folks not competing. I still don't care, but that's my background. I've never cared much for competing to win. I only ever roll to test myself against someone, and with the limited amount of time I have for training, testing at that level isn't in my blood. But I can see why it would be, and why it could seem "off" for a school not to have any competitors. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it does seem outside the culture of the art.
I'll just say this - I'm certain that when formal, scored competitions started in Karate, there were some with the opposite view. Perhaps there's room inside the BJJ culture for non-competitive schools, but that seems like a different thing than sport BJJ, so I'm not sure how those stay closely aligned.
Charlemagne
Black Belt
As long as there was hard rolling and they were open to outsiders coming to train, they themselves were doing drop-ins with other schools when they traveled, and they had someone over them (as in an association) making sure they were maintaining standards, I really wouldn't. I would call it a yellow flag rather than a red in that it might cause me to look closer, but not automatically be concerned.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Couple of quick things, and then I have to hit the road.
1. Competing isn't just about winning. It's about objective, external feedback. It's application of technique in a context where there are some stakes for loss. five minutes of rolling in competition is worth 100 hours of sparring in class, even with strangers.
2. A competitive ruleset is competition, but competition isn't restricted to a single ruleset. The best schools encourage students to test themselves in a variety of rule sets from IBJJF to sub only, to modified sub only to MMA.
3. Related to the last one, competition is in the Dna of Bjj. Carlos competed. Helio competed. All of the Gracies built their reputations personally through competitio from the top to the bottom. and if your name isn't Gracie, if you want to be a successful coach, you need to compete. Pedro Sauer, the Ribiero brothers, All,of the legends built their legend in competition. If there are issues with the test, The answer isn't to stop competing, it's to modify the test. Competition should be as diverse as the skills being tested, and in the past this would range from challenge matches to tournaments to vale tudo.
I'll post more if needed, as I can. But hopefully this helps to explain my thoughts.
1. Competing isn't just about winning. It's about objective, external feedback. It's application of technique in a context where there are some stakes for loss. five minutes of rolling in competition is worth 100 hours of sparring in class, even with strangers.
2. A competitive ruleset is competition, but competition isn't restricted to a single ruleset. The best schools encourage students to test themselves in a variety of rule sets from IBJJF to sub only, to modified sub only to MMA.
3. Related to the last one, competition is in the Dna of Bjj. Carlos competed. Helio competed. All of the Gracies built their reputations personally through competitio from the top to the bottom. and if your name isn't Gracie, if you want to be a successful coach, you need to compete. Pedro Sauer, the Ribiero brothers, All,of the legends built their legend in competition. If there are issues with the test, The answer isn't to stop competing, it's to modify the test. Competition should be as diverse as the skills being tested, and in the past this would range from challenge matches to tournaments to vale tudo.
I'll post more if needed, as I can. But hopefully this helps to explain my thoughts.
To your first point, I think that depends how the competitor looks at it. I've always enjoyed competition more than winning, so getting on the mats and rolling - for me - is the same whether there's a tournament or just an empty room. If I'm not trying something out (sparring to learn, where we don't necessarily bring our best game), then it all feels the same to me: I'm trying my best stuff to see how it works against their best stuff, and there's no real stakes in losing in either context. I think that's why I don't perceive the same value in it as you do - I don't think I'd actually get the same value as you do. Your attitude adds value to the tournament experience.
When the first generation of Gracie's competed they were challenge matches where their opponents were trying to punch and kick them as opposed to the current generation that is doing sport jiu jitsu. We teach both the self-defense and the sport. We have many people who love to compete and do extremely well but we also have police officers, military and emergency personnel. Most of them are not interested in the sport. They want to learn how to use Jiu-Jitsu for its combat effectiveness. They still free roll with everybody butt they just have different goals and their training. I would be wary of a school that does not promote competitions in any way shape or form. Even the Gracie Academy has tournaments and their number one goal is self-defense
Competing is just plain fun. How you fare is beside the point. Despite the travel and pain in the butt waiting around seemingly forever, the matches themselves, are a ball. The camaraderie you have with your team mates grows, you meet some great guys from other places, you sometimes see some really wild stuff, you learn a lot, especially when you get your tail whooped. And winning? First few times it happens, it's really the balls.
drop bear
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It is not necessarily what I would agee with either.
This sounds like how I'd react to a competition. It sounds like fun, but I'm not sure how much I'd care about the outcome, other than what I can learn from it and how much fun I had during the match. I've made the "mistake" in the past of grappling with guys much better than me. The result probably should have been embarrassing, but I just ended up with a big grin. It's like a roller coaster to me - just a kinda scary fun ride. The most fun to me is when the other guy is about my skill, and we keep blocking each other's moves until someone gets tired and sloppy. It's frustrating, but leaves me smiling.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I think you guys are starting to understand how important the competitions are. Bold part sums it up pretty well.
You know what the most fun is? Once in a while you'll fight a guy who's better than you, a better fighter, a better overall Martial Artist - and you'll beat him. Not because the ref missed something, not because you got lucky, not because he had an off day - you'll just beat him.
The fun isn't there at the competition,(although the ride home is kinda' nice) it's when you get back to training on Monday. It will inspire and propel you in a way that's different than anything else. It makes you work even harder, regardless of how hard you've always worked.
Man, if you could bottle that....
kuniggety
2nd Black Belt
Yeah, I wish I could bottle pure dumb luck.
This is why I wanted to continue the discussion. With the exception of a brief stint in Judo (and though we trained for competition, I never got the opportunity to go to one), I've never trained at a school that had any focus on competition. If rolling on a regular basis was still an option, I'd probably join a BJJ school just for the fun, if nothing else.
I get a bit of that every time I step into a strange school, or even visit one I'm familiar with but haven't visited in a while. I come back fired up to work on something. I can imagine competition would do at least that.
Every time you slap and bump it's a new experience. You can benefit from each and every role whether it is with a beginner are the most advanced. It all depends on how you look at it. You should be challenged every day on the mat and if you are not then you should be looking elsewhere or going to the more advanced classes
punisher73
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I do believe that there is a very famous BJJ BB out there now who has a special "celebrity curriculum" that is taught and is much less vigorous than what most would learn.
