Eye jab(biu jee from wc&jkd) vs tiger claw

[Tigerwarrior]

Just curious what you guys think about this. I've been trying to pressure test this stuff, but was wondering what you guys with more experience think. Which do you think is more effective in a real fight? A eye jab or a tigers claw. One is fine motor the other is gross motor. I'm thinking of incorporating the biu jee/ eye jab into my personal self defense system but I'm unsure. It seems like it's a small weapon attacking a very small target, where as with the tiger claw you have a bigger striking weapon so you don't need to be as precise. Let's discuss.

 

[drop bear]

Have you considered just punching them in the eye?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've studied this for some time now. The way I teach this is both are close range techniques that are done durining clinch defense.

In short the closer you are the more accurate the strike will be. I often compare to tiger like trying to use the face as a bowling ball. Sink the fingers in then hook the eye sockets. If you miss the eyes then try to grab the face and pull on the face like a Gi. Basically it's a hook and pull effort. High nose Bridge will effect the grab so if the bridge of the nose sticks our then you may have to use the first two fingers to target the eye sockets.

Eye jabs are more like bonus gifts that you get while doing something else. They aren't the main focus unless the technique sets up an eye strike. People who don't deal with their enemy's lead arm are vulnerable to eye pokes. People who don't strike as part of clinching are vulnerable to tiger claw.

Both require strong fingers and strong grips. I use a 8 and 10 pound slam ball to train my grip.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Have you considered just punching them in the eye?

Punching the eye is a different purpose. The techniques that the OP is talking about are designed to take sight or at the very least blur vision. They are also close range techniques where the arms are not in a good position for effective punching.

Kung fu schools and forms are bad with classifying the range for a lot of techniques which ends up having people either using the wrong range or using the wrong focus

 

[JowGaWolf]

I forgot to mention that tiger claw has more options beyond targeting the face and attacking the eyes. It also has some structural benefits.

 

[gyoja]

I forgot to mention thst tiger claw has more options beyond targeting the face and attacking the eyes. It also has some structural benefits.

Can you elaborate?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Which do you think is more effective in a real fight? A eye jab or a tigers claw.

Neither. If you use your fingers to slide across your opponent's eyes, you will have better chance that one of your fingers can hit one of your opponent's eyeballs.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Can you elaborate?

Tiger claw comes with a palm strike which is known for striking the face. The hand position that tiger usesttightens the for arm making it good for batting down strikes vs using you hand to parry. It can be used to create a frame for use against incoming knees. It can also be to jam rising kicks if the bone and muscle are conditioned.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Neither. If you use your fingers to slide across your opponent's eyes, you will have better chance that one of your fingers can hit one of your opponent's eyeballs.

Tiger claw does this as it grabs

 

[gyoja]

Tiger claw comes with a palm strike which is known for striking the face. The hand position that tiger usesttightens the for arm making it good for batting down strikes vs using you hand to parry. It can be used to create a frame for use against incoming knees. It can also be to jam rising kicks if the bone and muscle are conditioned.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Tiger claw does this as it grabs

Yes but I can do it much faster with just the tips.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Can you elaborate?

I'm currently at work buy I'll try to create a video that shows the structural difference.

 

[gyoja]

I'm currently at work buy I'll try to create a video that shows the structural difference.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

Have you considered just punching them in the eye?

No. But that's an interesting idea. Thanks.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

I've studied this for some time now. The way I teach this is both are close range techniques that are done durining clinch defense.

In short the closer you are the more accurate the strike will be. I often compare to tiger like trying to use the face as a bowling ball. Sink the fingers in then hook the eye sockets. If you miss the eyes then try to grab the face and pull on the face like a Gi. Basically it's a hook and pull effort. High nose Bridge will effect the grab so if the bridge of the nose sticks our then you may have to use the first two fingers to target the eye sockets.

Eye jabs are more like bonus gifts that you get while doing something else. They aren't the main focus unless the technique sets up an eye strike. People who don't deal with their enemy's lead arm are vulnerable to eye pokes. People who don't strike as part of clinching are vulnerable to tiger claw.

Both require strong fingers and strong grips. I use a 8 and 10 pound slam ball to train my grip.

Thanks for that info. Yeah I see what your saying. I've seen videos of jkd guys using it either as a preemptive strike or to intercept. I heard a story probably a rumor, the bruce lee tried to eye jab Wong jack man in their fight. Basically the story goes he missed the eye and sliced the forehead of Wong jack man. I've looked at Bruce's notes in several books and he was training that technique 250-500 times a day. If he couldn't pull it off I don't know if I could. There's a video circling around of a san soo guy using it to good effect and I've heard stories of guys using it but idk if it's worth the risk to use it as a preemptive strike. It makes alot of sense what you're saying about using it in closer quarters like the clinch or clinch defense. I'm gonna try to find that video. Thanks man.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yes but I can do it much faster with just the tips.

I don't think of it as a speed thing. For me it's a positional issue mixed with a " what next?" Issue. If I want to just use the finger tips then I may go for the eyes after trapping. If I miss then my opponent will be able to recover. With tiger claw I may be defending arm control and I want ultimately stop playing that game
Here I may shoot my arm upward on the inside to go for the eyes. The natural instinct is to close your eyes when you see something coming towards your eyes. If you haven't closed your eyes yet then you will once my fingers make contact.

The second naural reaction is to move your head away from danger. This is where the grab comes into play. If the grab has not damaged the eyes the it has at a minimum reduced your vision and establishes head control in facial injury. One the grab sinks in then I can pull or push as needed. I can sing the grip for a long period of time or for a short period of time as long as I move the head and inflict pain.

The same way BJJ and Judo tugs the gi is the same concept that a I want to use with the face. Worst case scenario blind in both eyes. Best case is that your opponent has saved this eyes and only has facial injury.

I personally wouldn't try to use tiger claw outside of grappling range unless it's being used to redirect strickes or to deliver palm strikes with the option of grabbing after the palm lands.

 

[drop bear]

No. But that's an interesting idea. Thanks.

A dead set knuckle in the eye will blind you. While also being a pinch if you miss.

It happens a bit with the smaller mma gloves.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I heard a story probably a rumor, the bruce lee tried to eye jab Wong jack man in their fight. Basically the story goes he missed the eye and sliced the forehead of Wong jack man.

He probably practiced it wrong. Meaning using it as a long range strike. You can use a long guard and watch you enemy's reaction. If he let's you hand stay there then you can poke his eyes. Even though the arm is extended the hand is closer within grappling range. I teach "to allow a hand to stay there without punishment is a sin" it should never go unpunished.

Many assume tiger claw is for the front of the face but zi can apply it to the side of the face as well. Which may be easier to pull off because people assume that you are trying to establish a clinch. I'll put it this way when my hand is there I focus really deep to prevent my thumb from naturally sinking in my sparring partner's eye. And that when I'm not trying to do tiger claw. Sometimes it's 3 inches away from an eye injury. Which is another reason I like to spar to learn. It slows the pace down to were riskier techniques can safely be trained. Both partners are less likely to make jerky response movement that may cause damage.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've seen that many times. It worked because the other guy was in grappling mode which is the same mode for clinch work. Had the victim been in striking range then that eye poke becomes more difficult to land.