Explaining Kata/Forms to Those Who Don't Do Them

Koshiki

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Here's what I think would be cool in this thread. I don't presume to dictate the flow of conversation, but it would be interesting if members would post a description of their own view of forms and their use, in whatever style. Rather than a conversation on the subject, per se, but a focus on each individual's understanding. I realize people will have questions, comments, jokes, etc for each other, but a limit on long back and forth debate would be appreciated by me, at any rate.

That way, hopefully the thread will be a fascinating read through of well thought out perspectives, rather than a disorganzed conversation. I know that probably won't happen, but that's what I'm hoping for.

That said, here's my own understanding. I tried to keep it brief but, well, I'm bad at that. Please understand, this is my view, not the majority view, and not the correct view. Certainly not the best view. It's what works for me. It's why I personally finally changed my mind and decided kata were worth something.


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What kata is is pretty clear on the surface. It's a pattern of movements pertaining to combat against a single opponent, but performed as a solo practice routine. It looks a lot like dance. In many cases, it pretty much is dance.

What kata is for is a murky subject, however. For some it's performance art. For others it's exercise to strengthen the practitioner, develop their balance, and so on. Some people view it as a record of specific techniques to be used in certain situations.

However, the purpose for which I and others use kata is quite different from any of this. I've read many good descriptions that embody the way I personally view kata, but I htink many of them probably don't make sense if you don't already view kata in the way described, somewhat the way a really good description of the sound of train whistle would make sense to many of us, but would be utterly useless as a description given to one of us who is and has always been deaf.

Now, a couple things need to be said first.
1. Practicing a kata in the air, no matter how perfect your visualization, will not prepare you in any real way for actual combat.
2. The motions in a kata are not meant to be exact representations of specific applied techniques. The gross motions should be similar, but the practice of kata-derived application should largely be done with a partner, and is distinct from the movements in the solo form.
3. The bulk of kata practice should ideally be application with a partner, not solo air punching practice, though that has value as well.

Before I go any further, a disclaimer. My art is ostensibly Taekwondo, however it bears more resemblance to much of Karate than it does to much of Taekwondo. The kata I do are entirely found within Karate Styles, basically the Pinans/Heians, Naihanchi, and Bassai. We do none of the uniquely Korean forms. The versions we do, however, have been heavily Koreanized in many places. There are also parts of our forms where strikes have been added in that clearly read to me as though whoever added them didn't understand the potential of the original kata, and though it was blocking an opponent without countering, necessitating the strikes.

The point of this backstory is, my forms are often changed enough from the originals that whatever the original intent of a given kata was, it is now heavily obscured. The applications drawn from my Pion 2, sor example, are not going to largely correspond with those pulled from Shotokan's Heien Nidan, which in turn is going to have different potential from an Okinawan version of Pinan Shodan, none of which are probably comparable to whatever Channan entailed.

So if the kata don't really encode the specific techniques which can all be deciphered by a secret decoder ring, what's the point? I mean, really, couldn't we just use the Tango, or the Charleston, or contemporary ballet?

Well, actually, yes, you can. I have a close friend, practically family, who is an avid Belly Dancer, Kathak Dancer, and also plays with social dance styles. When she tries to get me to dance with her, she often complains that, "that step is not supposed to be a hip throw!" Can I help it if a dip is much like a take down?

The problem is, Kata don't necessarily look good, what they do is demonstrate powerful and natural movement styles of the body. Dance is designed to look good, sometimes at the expense of natural motion. One if form over function, the other is function over form.

In some places, yes there is obvious application, and most practitioners will arrive at similar results. Sometimes it's more muddied, and often it's completely, yes completely, up for interpretation.

This is about where those who don't practice Kata tend to really protest in earnest, "but then what's the point???"

This is also where I think many kata practitioners try to make kata out to be more than it really is. None of us know what the original applications of the older kata were, we all acknowledge that one interpretation can have as much validity as another, and we all acknowledge that most interpretations are likely not what the kata's creator intended, so really, it doesn't matter if there ever were any original applications, as long as the structure of the movement is sound. Again, these are my personal thoughts on kata, not everyone else's, not necessarily even anyone else's.

So again, what's the point?

I think what those who don't practice kata fully frequently misunderstand, is the purpose of kata. Kata is not a set of drills, and it's not intended to be. Also, it's of very limited use without the process of Bunkai.

That's right, process of Bunkai. An application that is derived from a kata is not "a Bunkai." Bunkai is the disassembly and analysis of kata. It is bunkai that separates kata from other drills, or from something like shadowboxing, or even from two man kata where both people have prescribed applications.

Kata and bunkai, a package deal, do not so much teach you Karate, as provide some structure to help yourself figure out karate. Even within just my own school, every long term practioner has a very different approach to fighting. One likes to grab and smash with elbows and body weight, simple, powerful techniques. Another likes small fluid movements, often in a psuedo-Aikido methodology of following the other person's movement, albeit much strike-ier than much of the Ueshiba stuff we usually see. Another is more of a sparrer, arms held close, largely parrying, absorbing, and striking back, any takedowns are usually sweeps. I'm fond of clinching and upright grappling mixed with close quarters striking. But we all learned from the same kata.

It must be understood that kata will not necessarily teach you good technique. It won't teach you how to do an armbar, or how to punch, or how to sweep. It will however, give you a framework for developing karate that works for you. Instead of an instructor giving you set combinations and applied techniques to practice, though this is necessary too, kata and bunkai enables you to find the combinations and applications that work for your body, for your experience, for your knowledge and skill, for your natural tendencies....

Now, certainly you can develop your own favored applications etc. on your own without kata, but kata forces you to decipher applications from motions you might otherwise ignore. It forces you to think creatively rather than habitually, it forces you to make sense of what might be senseless to you.

It forces you to explore uses for motion, at the most basic level, and in so doing you'll find thousands of potential applications. A majority of them will be crap. Many more will be possible but not practical. Of the small subset that are practical, many may not be suited to you in particular. A final group will be the applications that are the most suited for you. And occasionally, there's some stupid, impractical application that for whatever reason just really works for one specific individual.

Now, it's possible to do this same process of finding your ideal technique without kata, just learning applications. I don't argue that. However, that requires each instructor to learn, remember, and pass on those thousands of drills, most of which will be things he or she never uses, in the hopes that someday they'll just mesh for a person. Or, it requires the individual to just "come up" with all these possible approaches without the aid to inspiration afforded by kata.

But again, you can't learn, say, the nuance of a rear naked choke from a kata, generally speaking. However, once you learn the choke, you'll see opportunities for it all through your kata, you'll see new ways to thread it fluidly from and into other techniques, many of them counterintuitive. So can you learn upright grappling from a kata? No, not really, but once you know some upright grappling the kata constantly provides a basis for inspiration of new applications for the grappling you know. And yes, on occasion you'll just find something you never learned. I learned a hammer lock from our first kata long before I knew what a hammer-lock was, just because the kata forced me to play around with a motion that naturally led to it.

So, can you, for example, learn ground fighting from kata? No. Definitely not. At least, not in any efficient way. However, if you know some ground fighting, can kata provide a basis for counterintuitive ways to utilize what you've learned? Absolutely.

People complain that that's not karate, it wasn't in the kata, you didn't learn it from the form, you just reapplied what you learned elsewhere. Yes. 100%. Absolutely. That's the whole point of kata. You could make the same objection to any takedown, arm bar, wrist lock, punch, elbow strike or kick commonly associated ith karate. We didn't learn it from the kata. We just found it there after we learned it.

We don't learn the applications of karate techniques from kata, the kata doesn't teach them to us. The Kata doesn't teach us anything, it gives us a new way to look at what we already know.

Kata is a Metaphor.

Or more precisely, a metaphor is the best metaphor for kata. Now stay with me, I know that sounds fishy and spiritual and wishy washy and silly. But it's true, in a way. A metaphor doesn't teach you anything, it doesn't hold great truths in it, and it relies on you already being familiar with what the metaphor is metaphor-izing. The metaphor makes you look at what you know in a new light.

Take this metaphor. "Authority is a chair, it needs legs to stand up."

If you don't know a fair amount about authority already, comparing it to a chair is meaningless. You'll learn nothing. If you know something of authority, and force yourself to consider how it is like a chair, and how a chair represents authority, then in the process of contorting your knowledge of authority to fit a chair, you may arrive at a variety of new conclusions on the subject.

Let's take that last paragraph and replace the word "authority" with "technique," and the word "chair" with "kata." (other slight alterations necessary for the English to make sense)

If you don't know a fair amount about technique already, comparing it to a kata is meaningless. You'll learn nothing. If you know something of technique, and force yourself to consider how it is like the motions of a kata, and how a kata represents technique, then in the process of contorting your knowledge of technique to fit a kata, you may arrive at a variety of new conclusions on the subject.
 

Touch Of Death

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Ok, upon reading the first part. Yes Kata does help you fight people in real life, if not just for the footwork alone. Secondly you can fight as many people as you want, in a Kata. :)
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I may have trained more forms (> 50) than most people in this forum. Here is my opinion about form.

I like to integrate kick, punch, lock, throw, and ground game. Unfortunately, there exist no form that can help me to do that. If I want to use kick to set up punch (such as groin kick followed by face punch), I can get that information from my forms. If I want to use punch to set up clinch (such as to use hook punch to set up under hook), Not much information can be obtained from my forms. The day that I started to created my own drills in order to achieve my goal, the day that I no longer train form.

Here is a self-created form just because such kind of form doesn't exist yet.

 

Bill Mattocks

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*** OPINION ***

Kata is karate, karate is kata. Encoded within kata are all the techniques of a given system, and a nearly-infinite number of applications for those techniques. This is often what is referred to when people talk about karate 'secrets'. There are no secrets, but there is information that is locked inside the kata, waiting to be discovered, explored, and developed. Like DNA; kata is the building block of all karate.

Kata can also be a form of meditation, or relaxation, or a loosening-up or warming-up exercise.

Kata can be done alone, at any time, and requires no equipment and little space.

Kata can be done in a group, and with a partner working the 'opposite side' of the kata in question, providing the cause or reason for the movements.

Kata is necessary to learn more than the surface techniques of karate. Doing kata does not guarantee one will find a deeper understanding of karate, but not doing kata guarantees one will not.

Some complain that kata is unrealistic. "I will never go into a fight against an opponent who attacks in the way kata predicts." That is correct, you won't. I will probably seldom find need to type "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy yellow dog" (other than this example), but it's how I practiced learning to type on a typewriter. I doubt many pianists play "Chopsticks" on record albums, but it seems many of them learn to play it. The point is, kata teaches movement, balance, hard and soft techniques, transitions, rooting or grounding techniques, leverage and balance points, blocks, strikes, evasions, dumps, throws, trips, kicks, and so on. It's all in there. How you apply those techniques in 'real life' is up to you. But kata helps cement those techniques in a usable format in your brain-body memory.

Some complain that they can't make the techniques inside a given kata work. If that is the case, then either you are not learning it correctly or you are not being taught it correctly, or it has been so modified over time as to make it useless as a technique. Kata techniques work or they are not valid techniques. Do not be quick to judge them useless just because you cannot make them work, however. Consider other alternatives.

The more I do kata, the more I see the techniques of the kata I do in every self-defense move I practice. The more I do kata, the more I see the 'Codes of Karate' within them, clearly exemplified. The more I do kata, the more my body 'knows' what to do when confronted with an attack I might not have seen before.

I know karateka who do not practice kata in their school or system, or who personally eschew kata. I won't claim they are not good karateka; I'm sure many of them are. I won't claim they are not able to defend themselves or they are not good fighters; I have no doubt many of them are. It is entirely possible, I believe, to become a proficient karateka without kata; but proficiency alone is not what I seek, and kata offers more than mere proficiency (to me).

"Do kata" has become my stock answer to everything.

"I'm tired." "Do kata."
"I'm sore." "Do kata."
"I'm hung over." "Do kata."
"I'm cold." "Do kata."
"I don't feel like doing karate today." "Do kata."
"I'm tired of doing kata." "Do kata."


I don't do enough kata. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what I strongly believe kata will eventually give to me. But I have seen enough to convince me that kata is the key to a deeper understanding of karate and a higher level of karate proficiency.

One thing I do not do, however, is argue about the efficacy, even the necessity of kata. Those who disagree with me are free to do so. I will not try to convince them otherwise; I know what I know and it's enough for me. No one else is required to believe it.

*** END OF OPINION ***
 

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Since this is in the general MA section and not in Karate, I'm going to assume you are not specifically referencing kata and intend for this to be an open discussion about forms in general.

In BJJ, there are many solo and partner drills that are intended to be performed over and over, without resistance. The goal is to get the body to learn the movement and to develop the strength necessary to execute the technique. My impression is that forms in other styles fill this same role.

In partner drills, a lot of benefit comes from exploration of movement, such as what is described as bunkai. Flow drills are great for this. No real pressure, no strength, just good technique with a partner to flow and experiment with movement. There is also a fun drill where you execute a technique and then stop, allow your partner to respond, back and forth until one person gets stuck.
 

Danny T

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**Question**
For those who do train Kata, Form, Technique Sets or whatever you call the sets of your systems movements; Is the practice of kata (the repeated performing of the movements as a session of training) what you mean by kata. Or, does it also encompass the drilling of specific movements for a specific application (or is this what is considered Bunkai)? Is Bunkai different from doing Kata? How much time do you feel is important to spend on practicing kata vs practicing specific drills to understand and have the ability to use the movements and positions for things like throwing, takedowns, armbreaks, chokes, joint locks, etc.?
Is practicing of such application drills all considered doing kata?

In the training I have had of Kata (shotokan), forms (wing chun & tai chi), technique sets (pekiti-tirsia), all have what I would call the practicing of the movements in specific set or series of moves. However, kata/forms are but a small part of the training. There are many drills to develop attributes, and many drills to understand timing, range, lines of force and vectors, pressure, and there are many drills to show the many moves, stances, footwork, postures, etc can be utilized for a multitude of different applications. A single movement from point A to point B can be, based upon the spacial relationship with the opponent and what is the point of contact along with different footwork can be completely different applications for the movements. Problems arise when one takes an attribute drill and line of force understanding drill and attempts to apply them in the same specific manner the drill is performed vs using the understand one gains from the drill and applying it appropriately. What is applicable and when is it applicable.

Just trying to understand what is meant by the term Kata.
Doing Kata
Practicing Kata
Drilling Kata
Understanding Kata
Studying Kata
Are they all the same to you?
 

Bill Mattocks

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**Question**
For those who do train Kata, Form, Technique Sets or whatever you call the sets of your systems movements; Is the practice of kata (the repeated performing of the movements as a session of training) what you mean by kata. Or, does it also encompass the drilling of specific movements for a specific application (or is this what is considered Bunkai)?

In my style, kata is a set of defined movements. We have 8 empty-handed kata. We do not refer to specific exercises as kata, we call them basic exercises, one-point drills, etc, etc. But they are not kata.

Is Bunkai different from doing Kata? How much time do you feel is important to spend on practicing kata vs practicing specific drills to understand and have the ability to use the movements and positions for things like throwing, takedowns, armbreaks, chokes, joint locks, etc.?
Is practicing of such application drills all considered doing kata?

Bunkai is not kata, and kata is not bunkai. This is easily confused in my experience. Bunkai is often referred to as 'application'. There can be obvious bunkai and more subtle bunkai. A given movement or sequence inside kata can have many, many, different applications available within it. Practice in those movements is still bunkai, not kata. One of the things I try to always keep in mind is that when doing kata, do kata. Do not change the kata to demonstrate a particular application.

Those things are *in* the kata, but they are not kata.

In the training I have had of Kata (shotokan), forms (wing chun & tai chi), technique sets (pekiti-tirsia), all have what I would call the practicing of the movements in specific set or series of moves. However, kata/forms are but a small part of the training. There are many drills to develop attributes, and many drills to understand timing, range, lines of force and vectors, pressure, and there are many drills to show the many moves, stances, footwork, postures, etc can be utilized for a multitude of different applications. A single movement from point A to point B can be, based upon the spacial relationship with the opponent and what is the point of contact along with different footwork can be completely different applications for the movements. Problems arise when one takes an attribute drill and line of force understanding drill and attempts to apply them in the same specific manner the drill is performed vs using the understand one gains from the drill and applying it appropriately. What is applicable and when is it applicable.

What you do sounds a lot like what we do. We have lots of exercises, one-steps, self-defense techniques, etc, and in many cases, it is clear to us that the given sequence or movement is right out of X or Y kata. Nothing wrong with that! That doesn't mean we're doing kata when we perform those exercises, sequences, one-steps, etc.

Just trying to understand what is meant by the term Kata.
Doing Kata
Practicing Kata
Drilling Kata
Understanding Kata
Studying Kata
Are they all the same to you?

To me, all are the same. However, over time, deeper understanding may blossom.

Imagine something simple. An open hand block to a punch. At first, it is just that. Open hand, block punch.
Then over time, it becomes a redirection if appropriate, and not a simple 'chop' style block.
Then one begins to notice that how one settles into the block/redirection affects the opponent's balance and one begins to think of ways to take advantage of that.
Then one begins to notice how the redirection can be combined with one's body movement to turn the open hand into a grasp, then a trap, then a throw, etc, etc.

Kata is kata. One does the movements and imagines the opponent and the purpose of the movements. Over time, one begins to see more purpose to the movements. Working with partners, one explores those extrapolations and discovers what works, what does not, how best to apply, net effect, timing, follow up movements, and so on.

At the same time, kata teaches extreme basics, upon which everything else is based, even if bunkai is taken away. Basic exercises, balance, movement, transitions, breathing, timing, speed, etc. As one gains experience with kata, applications become more realistic as application.
 

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Here is my understanding of kata, based on my experiences ...

Kata is a Japanese word and concept. The kanji for kata is 型 and it means pattern or model. The Japanese martial arts have been based on kata for centuries. The koryu arts (classical schools started before the Meiji restoration in 1863) that began back in the 1600's in Japan still use many of the same kata today that were put down in scrolls that are (in some instances) still preserved from that time. In contrast to how they are used in many American schools, the purpose of kata within the Japanese arts is to ingrain muscle memory, and teach the body a particular way of movement through repetition. The majority of kata in the Japanese koryu involve two people, although there are still a number of them that are done solo. kata are fluid and not fixed. I have found that they will change based on what the head of the school decides that people need to improve. Movements and objectives within the kata will change, subtly changing the movements that are being ingrained in the body.

In the Meishi branch of Mugai ryu that I practice, there are 23 solo forms and 27 paired forms, until you get into the upper levels when additional kata to teach advanced concepts are introduced. Some schools rely on only a few, others have hundreds.
 

Bill Mattocks

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... kata are fluid and not fixed. I have found that they will change based on what the head of the school decides that people need to improve. Movements and objectives within the kata will change, subtly changing the movements that are being ingrained in the body.
For us, at least (Okinawan basis, not Japanese), the kata do not change, there is no one authorized to change them. That is not to say that different schools do not do them differently - that often happens. But a student in a given school, for example, should not 'change' the kata taught to him or her by their sensei. In fact, 'drift' is one of the things we try not to let happen; sometimes unsuccessfully.

We are fortunate, however, that we have a short lineage line from our founder. In my case, I am third-generation, and my sensei's sensei, who is a 1st generation student of the founder, is still living and teaching. It is relatively easy for us to find out the 'correct' method for our particular style if questions arise.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Let me offer an example of the kinds of misunderstanding that often exist around kata.

In my style, we have a kata called 'Seisan'. Other styles of karate have the same or a similar kata. In our style, at one point, the karateka executes a shuffle-step and then a double-overhead block.

Many karateka ask what the purpose of the double-overhead block is. And they are often told what is the standard bunkai or application; it is a defense against a double-overhead chop.

Who is going to attack me on the street with a double-overhead chop? No one, that's who.

I believe that it is just such things that lead instructors to change kata, and students to proclaim that kata is useless. They are mistaken, but I understand why they make the error in the first place if that's all they think that particular move is good for.

Yes, the double-overhead block can be a defense against a double-overhead chop - if anyone ever attacks me that way, I'm ready! But in seriousness, it is so much more than JUST that. I won't go into all the applications, but many of them should not be too hard to imagine. A person who executes the technique properly should be able to use it - without modification - to defend against many different types of attack. One really only has to use one's imagination.

And the point of the kata is to train the body to perform the movement smoothly, from a stable base, with power, speed, and balance. So how the technique is applied is far less important than that the body can do it and the brain can recognize when to do it.

We train our bodies to move, we train our brains to coordinate that movement and apply it accordance with time and opportunity. Kata develops both, but understanding may take far longer than simply learning to mimic the movements.
 

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None of my primary arts involve kata (unless you count the partner drills that Steve mentioned). However I thought I'd share something that occurred to me a while back while learning the Nage No Kata from Judo.

In the Nage No Kata, uke is required to feed a very specific sort of energy feeding in to being thrown in a way that feels sort of unnatural. It's not quite throwing yourself, but it's just about a step away from that. It's certainly not the way a skilled grappler would normally react in a fight.

I was puzzling over this for a while and finally decided that may be a tool for practitioners to feel the ideal form of a throw in a consistent manner. The perfect throw is always the one where you manage to catch your opponent's energy and it feels completely effortless, like your opponent is throwing himself and you're just helping to steer a little bit. Unfortunately, it's really hard to do that consistently against a competent, resisting opponent with a good base. In the short term, you're likely to spend a lot more time in randori having to force the action more than you would in the ideal throw. Perhaps the kata is just a way of reminding us - "this is how things should feel when everything goes just right."
 

lklawson

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None of my primary arts involve kata (unless you count the partner drills that Steve mentioned). However I thought I'd share something that occurred to me a while back while learning the Nage No Kata from Judo.

In the Nage No Kata, uke is required to feed a very specific sort of energy feeding in to being thrown in a way that feels sort of unnatural. It's not quite throwing yourself, but it's just about a step away from that. It's certainly not the way a skilled grappler would normally react in a fight.

I was puzzling over this for a while and finally decided that may be a tool for practitioners to feel the ideal form of a throw in a consistent manner. The perfect throw is always the one where you manage to catch your opponent's energy and it feels completely effortless, like your opponent is throwing himself and you're just helping to steer a little bit. Unfortunately, it's really hard to do that consistently against a competent, resisting opponent with a good base. In the short term, you're likely to spend a lot more time in randori having to force the action more than you would in the ideal throw. Perhaps the kata is just a way of reminding us - "this is how things should feel when everything goes just right."
Depends on which Judoka you ask. There isn't always a consensus on this subject. However, what you describe is indeed one of the leading theories on the purpose of Nage no Kata. I know that I definitely gained an insight into uchimata from nage no kata regarding timing, movement, and use.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Buka

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I may have trained more forms (> 50) than most people in this forum. Here is my opinion about form.

I like to integrate kick, punch, lock, throw, and ground game. Unfortunately, there exist no form that can help me to do that. If I want to use kick to set up punch (such as groin kick followed by face punch), I can get that information from my forms. If I want to use punch to set up clinch (such as to use hook punch to set up under hook), Not much information can be obtained from my forms. The day that I started to created my own drills in order to achieve my goal, the day that I no longer train form.

Here is a self-created form just because such kind of form doesn't exist yet.


Superimposing the second video onto the first - awesome. I wish every Kata in every style was available to us in that video format. That's just so cool.
 

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For us, at least (Okinawan basis, not Japanese), the kata do not change, there is no one authorized to change them. That is not to say that different schools do not do them differently - that often happens. But a student in a given school, for example, should not 'change' the kata taught to him or her by their sensei. In fact, 'drift' is one of the things we try not to let happen; sometimes unsuccessfully.

Slight misunderstanding. Neither the students nor the instructors can change the kata. Any changes come from Niina Gosoke, who is head of our branch of Mugai ryu in Tokyo. Drift does happen on occasion, but Niina Gosoke visits the US once a year, and he'll let you know in no uncertain terms if you've drifted on anything. :)
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Neither the students nor the instructors can change the kata.

Forget about the forms in your system. How about create your own forms? This way you can create it to fit your own training need.

If you are a beginner and you say you are not ready to do it yet, how about 20 years from today? How about 40 years from today?
 
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pgsmith

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Forget about the forms in your system. How about create your own forms? This way you can create it to fit your own training need.

If you are a beginner and you say you are not ready to do it yet, how about 20 years from today? How about 40 years from today?
If I ever get to the point that I am named successor to be head of our school, then I would have the authority to change the kata. Until that time, if I create my own kata then I am practicing something other than Meishi-ha Mugai ryu. I have no desire to try and create my own art when there are plenty of existing arts being taught by those with much more experience than I possess. This will still be true 20 years from today, and I doubt I'll be around 40 years from now. :)
 

Bill Mattocks

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Forget about the forms in your system. How about create your own forms? This way you can create it to fit your own training need.

If you are a beginner and you say you are not ready to do it yet, how about 20 years from today? How about 40 years from today?

For me, kata is about a lot more than training needs. I see no reason to ever create my own forms; there is more than enough to keep me busy all the days of my life.
 

JowGaWolf

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This is what forms are to me.
1. Reference library of kung fu techniques that teach students how to do the movements of a technique
2. Exercise and conditioning training required to do kung fu. Jow Ga forms build muscle, improve reflex and coordination, improves agility, serves as a cardio vascular workout, trains memory, presents fight scenarios 1vs multiple opponents, and increases focus
3.Serves as a reference for realistic fighting combinations that can be used in real fights. Certain parts of the forms are actually combos while the rest is just techniques not meant to be used as a combo in a fight.
4. Provides am easy way to pass the knowledge to future students.
5. Forms are the "shadow boxing" of kung fu
6. Forms allow me to create custom fighting sets that are specific to the type of fighting system I'm fighting against. This is only done by Sifus who have a deeper understanding of forms, the functions, and applications that they serve.

To me forms are a critical part to learning and understanding kung fu. This is only in reference to Jow Ga kung fuL a person can't learn Jow Ga without learning the forms. Forms give meaning, purpose, and understanding. Without the forms a person is just kicking or punching without direction.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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If you have learned

- jab, cross, hook, uppercut combo from boxing,
- hook kick from TKD,
- flying knee from MT,
- single leg from wrestling, and
- hip throw from Judo,

will you add those moves into your forms even if those moves may not exist in your system?
 

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