EPAK Old vs. New

[Hand Sword]

Honestly I wonder if Kenpo can actually come under one banner again due to the damage if I may use that term between different associations and the passing of those passions to the 2nd or even 3rd generation of BB's. Since many of us are 2nd or 3rd Generation BB's we have to rely on the Senior BB's for guideance and insight on how Kenpo must move forward. How we (that is each of us) can be the Martial Artist that SGM Parker would have wanted us to be.

We do well to honor his Art of Kenpo if we all respect each other and learn from each other knowing that each of us can and are able to contribute to Kenpo in some way making Kenpo better as well as making each of us better Kenpoist aka Human Beings.

Maybe I am a dreamer but I do belive after gleaning from his books, talking by phone or via computers, and studies from other BB in Kenpo. We would all like to be respected despite our differences. We are all Kenpoist and we need to respect each other therefore HONORING SGM Parker's memory.

I agree with you completely, it's kind of ironic that the biggest obsticles to the reunion that must be overcome is supposedly what M.A.'s (of all styles) stress to do in their training: Respect for others(this one especially in our family, since, as I said earlier, Mr. Parker was the "Father" of all of our instructors instructors), and their abilities, and for being a positive force in their enviroment.

 

[Kenpodoc]

I wasn't there but it doesn't appear that Kenpo was ever one big happy family even under Mr. Parker's guidance. Most "Families" are full of internal discord and in my experience the families who claim no conflict are often the sickest. Martial artists are by nature opinionated, aggressive and unlikely to agree on everything. Personally, I take advantage of the discord by meeting different people and seeing different ways of interpreting the art. This discord is actually part of Kenpo's strength.

Jeff

 

[Michael Billings]

Originally Posted by Mark Weiser

Honestly I wonder if Kenpo can actually come under one banner again due to the damage if I may use that term between different associations and the passing of those passions to the 2nd or even 3rd generation of BB's.

... and I would ask if we actually NEED to come under one banner? I do not think it will ever be possible, as Black Belts have been "leaving" or been "booted" out of the IKKA since it's inception, and forming their own organizations ... and that was in Mr. Parker's lifetime. Some were sanctioned by him, but most were not. Did that mean they did "bad" Kenpo? Nah, it is just where Kenpo was when they left Mr. Parker, then they evolved or redacted material, and added other material as their organizations grew.

-Michael

 

[Seig]

I do not think we need to come under one banner, but it would certainly be nice if an organization, such as the AKSC, could set a standard for quality that all could agree on. I am not talking about a standardized across the board curriculuum. I do not believe that possible.
What I do believe is possible is that people that are members of this board, and of senior rank, could sit on a panel and say, "Yes, that is quality Kenpo" or "That is absolute junk."
Thanks to board such as Martial Talk, the barriers that have existed for so many years are slowly comming down encouraging a free flowing exchange of information. With this exchange of information is the opportunity for respect and friendship to foster where before it could or would not.

 

[Hand Sword]

Heck, I don't even know what you mean by old v. new.

EPAK I assume, since that is the title. So we are starting circa 1954 or so?

Old as in pre-1960
1960-1970 Tracy era material, Chinese Kenpo (NCKKA - LaBounty), etc.
1970-1980 Evolution to 24 Tech manual (the big red book) & Infinite Insights being written
1980-1990 Continued Evolution with new manuals unpublished, Mr. Parker starts repairing relationships within Kenpo and bringing people back under the IKKA umbrella?

Hard to break down by material or organizations. When was it not fragmented?

-Michael

If I was vague on the question, I apologize. I was trying to get info, cause I know a lot of you a very well versed on the subject. I was constantly hearing from EPAK practitioners, and reading a few things that referred to the kenpo of today as being a commercializes, water down version, compared to the kenpo that was taught by Mr. Parker in the beginning. Or, to better put it, it's not the kenpo that Mr. Parker would use or practice for his own skills. So, I just wanted to find out, if this was true, and if so, what were the differences between the two versions? (sorry about the confusion, I work the graveyard shift, and sometimes things don't come out the way I was thinking).

 

[Doc]

... However the New and Old guard move too much alike ....
Jeff

... that YOU have seen an interacted with. I accept your limitations on yourself, but not me. Simply put, I was taught differently from some others.

Dr. Dave did indeed come to see me and I think I made a modest impression on him of the significant differences that may be attained of the "same old material." How is that Possible? Like he said, "you gotta feel it." Trust me Dr. Dave is modest but he is no slouch himself, and is well educated. That's why we got along so well. Although he didn't understand how I achieved the results, (while he rattled off muscle groups and bone structure I didn't even remember) he had the opportunity to experience it and "feel" its undeniable reality. At first it can be somewhat perplexing. like an optical illusion physically manifesting itself. "This can't be possible," some say, "but nevertheless I feel it and it works." Dr. Dave really knows his stuff, and it was a pleasure to share with him.

I agree there are no secrets. There is only want we know, and that big black empty hole that we don't know. The secret is to first admit it and begin filling the hole from those that know more than we do. Of course finding them is another story, even if we do admit it.

Ed Parker said, "We can not become great until we come to the relaization that what we know is very little." I'm working on it Boss.

 

[Kenpodoc]

Doc,

I had no intention of putting limitations on you. I have not met you but would surely like to some time. My comment was merely meant to imply that the later practitioners were not better than the earlier students because of some new secret knowlege. There appears to be a core of Mr. Parker in all of his students but they have each applied that knowlege differently. I believe that those differences are part of the Strength of his system. I never met Mr. Parker so the closest I can get is to meet different students of his, compare movement and style and look for the center. Obviously this is not entirely accurate. This is just the closest I can get. I agree that feeling is believing and sure would like to experience at least a part of your Kenpo.

Jeff

 

[Doc]

Doc,

I had no intention of putting limitations on you. I have not met you but would surely like to some time. My comment was merely meant to imply that the later practitioners were not better than the earlier students because of some new secret knowlege. There appears to be a core of Mr. Parker in all of his students but they have each applied that knowlege differently. I believe that those differences are part of the Strength of his system. I never met Mr. Parker so the closest I can get is to meet different students of his, compare movement and style and look for the center. Obviously this is not entirely accurate. This is just the closest I can get. I agree that feeling is believing and sure would like to experience at least a part of your Kenpo.

Jeff

Fair enough sir, I look forward to someone of your stature and your own impressions.

 

[The Kai]

I was at a Shorin Ryu school the other night and watching the advanced class work. 80% were Black belts of various rank.
Pretty impressive, watching them move as a unit in a dance of various katas.
The owner was telling me how old these katas were and how some have been tweeked to the western world by Tracy and Parker. (not that it is a bad thing ) It was just a spontanious statement

I wonder why would Ed parker or the Tracy's touch a Kata in the Shorin -Ryu Karate system??

You are so sure of what you are saying, about this topic. I will bet you were not around when the first or second version on Ed Parkers Kenpo came out.
He changed in the middle of the stream more times then others have in their quest for the almighty dollar...The third time he got it right you say???

GAB First,or my own sake could you please tell me where and when you studied EPAK?
2.) What changes and what effect did it have on the system, Parker made it more flowing? I can see where that is a hugh finacial windfall

I have the utmost respect for the Karate or Kenpo or Chinese arts he blended with it. But everyone in this day and age of information, has to understand he borrowed, it was not new it was new to us in America.

Borrowed? in what sense? Did Parker promise to return the Martial art he learned? Fact is EPAK is a unique system

already been in the Marine Corp and visited those places and and had four hard years of training... We (marines)were on Okinawa since we captured it, been training in the very thing he said he invented.

Again Kenpo is not Karate! I don't think Parker ever claimed to have invented kenpo. he did claim to have infused his own concepts within the art. IMHO some of the concepts Parker evovled were years ahead of their time
FWIW
Todd

 

[Goldendragon7]

Ed Parker said, "We can not become great until we come to the relaization that what we know is very little." I'm working on it Boss.

Well, close {wording a little off but same idea:ultracool}...... but I Agree, however, if he were here today........ He would probably change it to ......

"One becomes HUMBLE he comes to the relaization that what he knows is very little." [5th Orange Belt saying]

:asian:

 

[Doc]

Well, close {wording a little off but same idea:ultracool}...... but I Agree, however, if he were here today........ He would probably change it to ......

"One becomes HUMBLE he comes to the relaization that what he knows is very little." [5th Orange Belt saying]

:asian:

Listen Buddy Boy, I was quoting the man talking to me, not what he wrote in a book. So there smarty pants.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Listen Buddy Boy, I was quoting the man talking to me, not what he wrote in a book. So there smarty pants.

hee hee...... Now put that tongue back in your mouth!

:ultracool