Effectiveness Chiropractic care in treating Martial Arts injuries

[Makalakumu]

This thread is in response to my thread about my back injury. I've opted to go to a chiropractor for treatment of my back problems. My wife and I researched a long time and we think we've found a good one.

Thus far, I've gone in for a number of adjustments and the progress with the pain has been slow. I'm supposed to get special shoes in order to treat the abnormal curvature of my spine and the fact that one of my legs is longer then the other.

The adjustments are somewhat painful, but tolerable and I'm sore afterward for a while. This injury has been a very frustrating experience and I'm wondering if I made the right decision to go with Chiropractic care. Does this stuff really work?

 

[mrhnau]

Thus far, I've gone in for a number of adjustments and the progress with the pain has been slow. I'm supposed to get special shoes in order to treat the abnormal curvature of my spine and the fact that one of my legs is longer then the other.

The adjustments are somewhat painful, but tolerable and I'm sore afterward for a while. This injury has been a very frustrating experience and I'm wondering if I made the right decision to go with Chiropractic care. Does this stuff really work?

Glad you went. My wife started going in January for migranes and some severe back pain from an old car wreck. The first month was pretty rough, but things did start to improve. she is now w/out migranes and is about 80% free of backpain. After the adjustments she is still tender and dizzy for a few minutes, but not as bad as when she started.

Stick with it for a while. Once we get enough $ I'm probably going to go myself. Communicate alot with them. If something is too painful or not helping let them know, they can alter treatment if need be.

 

[Martial Tucker]

This thread is in response to my thread about my back injury. I've opted to go to a chiropractor for treatment of my back problems. My wife and I researched a long time and we think we've found a good one.

Thus far, I've gone in for a number of adjustments and the progress with the pain has been slow. I'm supposed to get special shoes in order to treat the abnormal curvature of my spine and the fact that one of my legs is longer then the other.

The adjustments are somewhat painful, but tolerable and I'm sore afterward for a while. This injury has been a very frustrating experience and I'm wondering if I made the right decision to go with Chiropractic care. Does this stuff really work?

I've had decent success with them. The good ones know their limitations and will refer you to MD's when necessary, but these are hard to find. From my experience, beware of those who go the more "holistic" route, performing strength tests on you while you hold vials of different substances, on the premise that these substances give off "vibrations" that your body reacts to, depending on your affliction....
If you don't see noticable progress in 6-8 visits with a "mainstream" chiro, I'd see an orthopedic specialist, but I'd also at least consider acupuncture.

One last thing...don't rule out either your mattress or pillows as a source of
aggravation of the pain. I had shoulder problems for months, and a different pillow fixed it in a couple of days.

Good luck.

 

[stickarts]

Many years ago i ruptured my back muscles and I went to a chiropractor. he helped me a great deal. He relived the pain and I believe helped speed along the healing process. I went hobbling in to see him and i walked away much better.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

This thread is in response to my thread about my back injury. I've opted to go to a chiropractor for treatment of my back problems. My wife and I researched a long time and we think we've found a good one.

Thus far, I've gone in for a number of adjustments and the progress with the pain has been slow. I'm supposed to get special shoes in order to treat the abnormal curvature of my spine and the fact that one of my legs is longer then the other.

The adjustments are somewhat painful, but tolerable and I'm sore afterward for a while. This injury has been a very frustrating experience and I'm wondering if I made the right decision to go with Chiropractic care. Does this stuff really work?

First, allow me to say...I AM a chiropractor, and love to see these posts. Secondly, I'm not JUST a chiro...I have spent many years in physical medicine as a PA at a top L.A. orthopedic clinic; and participated in a limited fellowship at CSUN in their brain and spinal cord rehab program...an internationally ground breaking disability rehab center, based on sound physical therapy methodologies and principles.

I'm one of the unique chiro's, in that half of my field loves my spread and swears by me, while the other half swears at me (some still really at war with MD's, and see people like me interacting with them as the work of the devil/Judas Iscariot). While at the ortho clinic, I oversaw the PT/Rehab division for pre-operative conservative care trials, and post-surgical rehab. Not bragging (because there are lots out there who have done more); just letting you know where I'm coming from. While playing with the PT's, I happenstanced to learn a lot of very neat muscle energy techniques usually only taught in osteopathic colleges or physical therapy schools. So here's my general take:

Screw the shoe inserts; like vicodin, they will only mask the cause of the disorder, not repair it.

DO continue to get adjusted...through some rather complex neurological mechanisms, manipulative technique stimulates a healing process and corrective repositioning/reduction of aberrant motion of the spinal vertebrae, which is ONE PART ONLY of the vertebral subluxation complex (VSC for short). Te VSC also includes muscle tonicity too much or tooo little; blood flow and inflammatory responses in the area, etc.

DO find a chiro who takes a rather odd approach to supplement (only) the care you're getting from the guy you're with now. "Upper cervical" chiro's are fringe wierdo's, who have done the best with recalcitrant pain disorders and short leg syndromes NOT responding to other approaches. I used to mock them in school; now I send my toughest cases to them for adjunct corrective care. Basically, if the top 2 bones in your neck are jammed or malpositioned, all kinds of stuff goes whack in your body. As an orthopedic PA I've re-tested folks after limited courses of Upper Cervical care, to see some wierd stuff come out of them...leg length discrepencies corrected; grip strength improves markedly; measurable changes in nerve flow on needle EMG/NCV tests, etc. Go for 6 visits, then throw their phone number away (they'll try to hook you for life).

DO find an excellent PT in the area who can show you how to best stretch your hamstrings, quadratus lumborum, iliopsoas, lumbar paraspinals, and piriformis. Should only take 1-2 visits of their time. Heck, you could probably find the stretches on the web at runners sites, but look up "post-isometric relaxation" along with it, for instruction on how to actually use the positions.

DO find a Rolfer to open your psoas. Again, they want to sell you a 10-visit program, which ain't bad, but can get costly. If you specifically ask for "psoas release" in one visit, you will have one of the singularly most painful experiences in your adult life, but over 50% of your back pain will be gone. Period.

Finally, learn the right way to perform squats, and start adding a 2x/week light squatting routine to your life. There have been some great studies regarding the resolution of chronic back pain just by adding squats. Balances the stability of pelvic stabilizing muscles, and re-teaches the muscles how to work in coordinated, concerted effort.

No one practitioner has all the answers. I became a chiro because of my own disabling back pain, and how much chiro helped (literally kept me walking and out of surgery). But there is more to the equation than adjusting (this is blasphemy for a chiro to say, by the way). Muscle length/strength balance issues play an ONGOING role to get the bones to stay put once the chiro has set them, and the best guys for that are PT's and Rolfers (good ones, anyways...they aren't all created equal).

I am anti-pain killers, because they hide the problem instead of correcting it. Shoe inserts are, to me, the chiro's crutch as the pain killer is the MD's. Correct the length problem; don't compensate for it. Upper cervical guys are best for that. And stretch those hamstrings...they connect to the pelvis, and everytime you throw those kicks, you're tugging on the pelvis to tip posteriorly (like dumping a bucket out towards the rear), stretching and stressing the bottom discs and facet joints in your back. Wristlocks and come-alongs work because they stress the soft tissues that bridge and gird a joint; you're doing the same thing to the joints in your back when you throw front high kicks or air kicks.

DO keep getting your low back adjusted. Irritation leads to imflammation which leads to the formation of small scar tissue bad guys in critical parts of joint tissues. Adjusting breaks up bad tissue, normalizes joint mechanics, and provides an impetus for future generations of scar tissue to form along the force vector lines of the tissues so they don't obscure motion.

For what it's worth,

Dave.

PS -- if you're looking for efficacy studies, I can send you the references. The premiere mucky-muck study available is a metanalysis called a CONSORT study, which looked at the effectiveness of various modalities for treatment of back pain, based on the weight and soundness of available research. They found chiropractic had strong evidence in support of efficacy of treatment of low back pain. I think Van Tulder was the name of the lead researcher, if you want to look them up on mdlinx.

 

[Makalakumu]

Screw the shoe inserts; like vicodin, they will only mask the cause of the disorder, not repair it.

I'm being adjusted in three places; upper cervical, mid thoracic, and at the lumbar/sacral junction.

My right leg is a little shorter then my left leg, by about a quarter inch, because of the curvature of my spine and because of the partial sacralization of the bottom lumbar vertebrae. My chiro isn't recommending inserts. He wants me to actually get a pair of shoes that a cobbler can strip the sole down a quarter inch. Is there a difference?

I've got a couple of worries regarding the shoes. Will this affect my balance with them on or off? How long will it take for my body to adjust?

You said they weren't really needed anyway...why is this? What would be another alternative?

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I'm being adjusted in three places; upper cervical, mid thoracic, and at the lumbar/sacral junction.

My right leg is a little shorter then my left leg, by about a quarter inch, because of the curvature of my spine and because of the partial sacralization of the bottom lumbar vertebrae. My chiro isn't recommending inserts. He wants me to actually get a pair of shoes that a cobbler can strip the sole down a quarter inch. Is there a difference?

I've got a couple of worries regarding the shoes. Will this affect my balance with them on or off? How long will it take for my body to adjust?

You said they weren't really needed anyway...why is this? What would be another alternative?

If your head is on crooked, it changes subtle muscle tonicities throughout the body. I have a graphic that I'm trying to insert, but am having some trouble with. Facet tropism (the sacralization thing) may modify leg length, as it definitely affects joint biomechanics. My concern is that a prime cause -- your skull sitting a little bit crooked on a tipped and rotated C1 (top cervical vertebrae) may be a root cause of the lelg length thing. I just treated a kid today with LLI (leg length inequality) who was sent by an ortho. I could feel the transverse process of his atlas sticking out on the right compared to the left. Adjusted JUST THAT, and checked the LLI. It switched. So, was it really his legs?

e/m me with your e/m address, and I'll send you a Word doc that I use as a patient handout for the 20% of my pt load that this applies to. Note: That means approx 80% don't require this approach: again, something that the upper cervical specialists would burn me at the stake for saying. But when it IS a contributor, not much else will correct the issue.

Regards,

Dave

 

[qizmoduis]

This thread is in response to my thread about my back injury. I've opted to go to a chiropractor for treatment of my back problems. My wife and I researched a long time and we think we've found a good one.

Thus far, I've gone in for a number of adjustments and the progress with the pain has been slow. I'm supposed to get special shoes in order to treat the abnormal curvature of my spine and the fact that one of my legs is longer then the other.

The adjustments are somewhat painful, but tolerable and I'm sore afterward for a while. This injury has been a very frustrating experience and I'm wondering if I made the right decision to go with Chiropractic care. Does this stuff really work?

Careful. A chiropractor who claims your pain is related to "spinal curvature" and that one leg is longer than the other should be considered highly suspect. The latter claim, in fact, is pure scam. Chiropractors are not medical professionals and are not trained in medical diagnoses or treatment. You should visit http://www.chirobase.org/ and Dr. Stephen Barrett's http://www.quackwatch.org/ for more information. Note: there's plenty of evidence that a good chiropractor can provide relief of certain types of lower back pain, as indicated in the literature, but great care must be taken, especially when related to a real injury.

Penn and Teller also did an episode on chiropractic. It's both very informative and very offensive, as usual for them. And I'm not talking about Penn's liberal use of "colorful" language.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

First, allow me to say...I AM a chiropractor, and love to see these posts. Secondly, I'm not JUST a chiro...I have spent many years in physical medicine as a PA at a top L.A. orthopedic clinic; and participated in a limited fellowship at CSUN in their brain and spinal cord rehab program...an internationally ground breaking disability rehab center, based on sound physical therapy methodologies and principles.

I'm one of the unique chiro's, in that half of my field loves my spread and swears by me, while the other half swears at me (some still really at war with MD's, and see people like me interacting with them as the work of the devil/Judas Iscariot). While at the ortho clinic, I oversaw the PT/Rehab division for pre-operative conservative care trials, and post-surgical rehab. Not bragging (because there are lots out there who have done more); just letting you know where I'm coming from. While playing with the PT's, I happenstanced to learn a lot of very neat muscle energy techniques usually only taught in osteopathic colleges or physical therapy schools. So here's my general take:

Screw the shoe inserts; like vicodin, they will only mask the cause of the disorder, not repair it.

DO continue to get adjusted...through some rather complex neurological mechanisms, manipulative technique stimulates a healing process and corrective repositioning/reduction of aberrant motion of the spinal vertebrae, which is ONE PART ONLY of the vertebral subluxation complex (VSC for short). Te VSC also includes muscle tonicity too much or tooo little; blood flow and inflammatory responses in the area, etc.

DO find a chiro who takes a rather odd approach to supplement (only) the care you're getting from the guy you're with now. "Upper cervical" chiro's are fringe wierdo's, who have done the best with recalcitrant pain disorders and short leg syndromes NOT responding to other approaches. I used to mock them in school; now I send my toughest cases to them for adjunct corrective care. Basically, if the top 2 bones in your neck are jammed or malpositioned, all kinds of stuff goes whack in your body. As an orthopedic PA I've re-tested folks after limited courses of Upper Cervical care, to see some wierd stuff come out of them...leg length discrepencies corrected; grip strength improves markedly; measurable changes in nerve flow on needle EMG/NCV tests, etc. Go for 6 visits, then throw their phone number away (they'll try to hook you for life).

DO find an excellent PT in the area who can show you how to best stretch your hamstrings, quadratus lumborum, iliopsoas, lumbar paraspinals, and piriformis. Should only take 1-2 visits of their time. Heck, you could probably find the stretches on the web at runners sites, but look up "post-isometric relaxation" along with it, for instruction on how to actually use the positions.

DO find a Rolfer to open your psoas. Again, they want to sell you a 10-visit program, which ain't bad, but can get costly. If you specifically ask for "psoas release" in one visit, you will have one of the singularly most painful experiences in your adult life, but over 50% of your back pain will be gone. Period.

Finally, learn the right way to perform squats, and start adding a 2x/week light squatting routine to your life. There have been some great studies regarding the resolution of chronic back pain just by adding squats. Balances the stability of pelvic stabilizing muscles, and re-teaches the muscles how to work in coordinated, concerted effort.

No one practitioner has all the answers. I became a chiro because of my own disabling back pain, and how much chiro helped (literally kept me walking and out of surgery). But there is more to the equation than adjusting (this is blasphemy for a chiro to say, by the way). Muscle length/strength balance issues play an ONGOING role to get the bones to stay put once the chiro has set them, and the best guys for that are PT's and Rolfers (good ones, anyways...they aren't all created equal).

I am anti-pain killers, because they hide the problem instead of correcting it. Shoe inserts are, to me, the chiro's crutch as the pain killer is the MD's. Correct the length problem; don't compensate for it. Upper cervical guys are best for that. And stretch those hamstrings...they connect to the pelvis, and everytime you throw those kicks, you're tugging on the pelvis to tip posteriorly (like dumping a bucket out towards the rear), stretching and stressing the bottom discs and facet joints in your back. Wristlocks and come-alongs work because they stress the soft tissues that bridge and gird a joint; you're doing the same thing to the joints in your back when you throw front high kicks or air kicks.

DO keep getting your low back adjusted. Irritation leads to imflammation which leads to the formation of small scar tissue bad guys in critical parts of joint tissues. Adjusting breaks up bad tissue, normalizes joint mechanics, and provides an impetus for future generations of scar tissue to form along the force vector lines of the tissues so they don't obscure motion.

For what it's worth,

Dave.

PS -- if you're looking for efficacy studies, I can send you the references. The premiere mucky-muck study available is a metanalysis called a CONSORT study, which looked at the effectiveness of various modalities for treatment of back pain, based on the weight and soundness of available research. They found chiropractic had strong evidence in support of efficacy of treatment of low back pain. I think Van Tulder was the name of the lead researcher, if you want to look them up on mdlinx.

Nice.

 

[Ping898]

The adjustments are somewhat painful, but tolerable and I'm sore afterward for a while. This injury has been a very frustrating experience and I'm wondering if I made the right decision to go with Chiropractic care. Does this stuff really work?

Chiropractic care really does work, but a chiro is like any other doctor/service provider, even if you think you found a good one, you may not have. If what is being done hurts and after several appointments you aren't seeing much improvement then maybe you should look around more. In my family, my mom needs a chiro that combines the chiropractic care with some massage therapy that breaks up scar tissue in her shoulder, I personally need one that practices the old style of care of putting their hands on you and pushing everything into place as opposed to those that use the tapper thing (I don't know the name). You may need to try and look around more to get the care you really need. In my experience it has usually taken a few trys to find a good one that works the way I need him/her to. I screwed up my hips playing soccer, after a few years of care with increasing time between appointments I now find that with good chiropractic care I need 1 or 2 apppointments a year as a tune up and I am set.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Careful. A chiropractor who claims your pain is related to "spinal curvature" and that one leg is longer than the other should be considered highly suspect. The latter claim, in fact, is pure scam. Chiropractors are not medical professionals and are not trained in medical diagnoses or treatment. You should visit http://www.chirobase.org/ and Dr. Stephen Barrett's http://www.quackwatch.org/ for more information. Note: there's plenty of evidence that a good chiropractor can provide relief of certain types of lower back pain, as indicated in the literature, but great care must be taken, especially when related to a real injury.

Penn and Teller also did an episode on chiropractic. It's both very informative and very offensive, as usual for them. And I'm not talking about Penn's liberal use of "colorful" language.

Ahem. Chiropractors ARE medical professionals. In addition to being licensed health care providers governed by the same practice and professions codes as Medical Dieties (MD's), we are Portal of Entry Physicians in the worlds largest workers comp system. We ARE trained in medical diagnosis, and are held (at least in the state of California) to the same malpractice diagnostic requirements as an MD or DO (call it wrong, miss it, or not do your due diligence around diagnostic testing procedures to rule it out, and here comes the deep legal doo-doo). We recieve as many hours of biochemistry, physiology, pathology, differential diagnosis, orthopedic and neurological + general physical exam skills w/ differentials, radiological diagnosis, etc., as MD's do in any major medical university in the US or Europe. SOME chiropractic colleges -- out of philosophical differences with the mainstream medical community -- seek to avoid these educational requirements, and there are a few states that will allow the chiropractic technicians to practice as subluxation-based chiropractors (note the internal difference between Doctor of Chiropractic & Chiropractic Technician.). There are some colleges that seek to completely disavow themselves of anything smelling like a medical education; they usually only operate in the states that will accept their substandard educations, via limiting their scope of practice to only adjusting.

In most of the Chiropractic colleges, we are also trained in pharmacokinetics and basic prescribing & interactions (because there are a few states where the Chiro may be the only doc in a couple hundred miles, and they are allowed minor prescriptive rights under the supervision of an MD who is further away...a gray area much debated in the industry with some for, and some against). We recieve extensive training in physical medicine procedures, and in most states, compete with physical therapists for the same patients. We are taught suturing, emergency first aid, and how to deliver babies (in addition to fundamentals of OB-Gyn & adjunctive health sciences) ...again, because it only takes one state to allow the chiro to do this, and each college has to add it to their cirriculum to keep up.

Los Angeles College of Chiropractic is WASC accredited. There are several Osteopathic, Nursing and Physicians Assistant colleges that accept our units, and fast-track us to licensable degrees from their institutions. The medical college at University of California, Irvine, has implemented an alternative health survey class, at the behest of well-recognized DC+MD, Scott Haldemann (chiropractor and neurologist).

Additionally, medical doctors recieve little or no training in manual medicine procedures, or in the research related to the efficacy of such procedures. Yes, there are quacks in Chiropractic, performing muscle tests while you put goat testicle concentrate under your tongue. There are also quack MD's. Hell, there are non-quack MD's who contribute to the more than 100,000 polypharmaceutical deaths each year; or the 12,000 deaths each year from OTC pain meds. Goat testicle may be silly, but it doesn't kill anyone. BTW, does anybody know how many people die each year from AIDS? In the US, it's fewer than the number who die from OTC NSAID reactions and interactions. Anyone see a concert series and quilt criss-cross the country to raise funds for Advil awareness?

Quackwatch and chirobase have their agendas, and there is a fundamental error in critical reasoning to assume they must be correct, just because they say they are. There are multiple RCT's and metanalyses of RCT's that confirm the efficacy of Chiro care for multiple neuro-muscular-articular disorders. The state of research is ongoing, and continues to mount evidence in support of chiro for some things, and not for others. There is room in the universe for research-based chiropractic care. Even if the good Dr. Barrett does not agree. (Additionally, there are many prominent, well-trained, licensed healthcare providers - who just happen to be MD's - who refer vigorously to chiro-quacktors, because of the results we get, and because they have checked their ego's enough to recognize that their own experiences and training may not have been all-encompassing after all. Many do a better job describing HOW chiropractic works than chiropractors do).

Interesting financial motivation to agree with him: There is an organization (NCSM I believe) that disavows chiropractic for anything other than the conservative management of subacute pain disorders. Members are among the few who get green-lighted to waltz into a strange MD's office, and walk out with a new referral source.

My problem? I am a chiro, and I don't like most of them; there are too many buffoons that get into the industry, because the selection criteria for Chiro colleges is way below that of a standard med school. I also don't like MD's. Why? Because I spend much of my time fixing the problems caused by both; problems that could have been avoided if the healthcare practitioner just slowed down and thought for a moment.

Best Regards,

D.

 

[Shirt Ripper]

Ahem. Chiropractors ARE medical professionals. In addition to being licensed health care providers governed by the same practice and professions codes as Medical Dieties (MD's), we are Portal of Entry Physicians in the worlds largest workers comp system. We ARE trained in medical diagnosis, and are held (at least in the state of California) to the same malpractice diagnostic requirements as an MD or DO (call it wrong, miss it, or not do your due diligence around diagnostic testing procedures to rule it out, and here comes the deep legal doo-doo). We recieve as many hours of biochemistry, physiology, pathology, differential diagnosis, orthopedic and neurological + general physical exam skills w/ differentials, radiological diagnosis, etc., as MD's do in any major medical university in the US or Europe. SOME chiropractic colleges -- out of philosophical differences with the mainstream medical community -- seek to avoid these educational requirements, and there are a few states that will allow the chiropractic technicians to practice as subluxation-based chiropractors (note the internal difference between Doctor of Chiropractic & Chiropractic Technician.). There are some colleges that seek to completely disavow themselves of anything smelling like a medical education; they usually only operate in the states that will accept their substandard educations, via limiting their scope of practice to only adjusting.

In most of the Chiropractic colleges, we are also trained in pharmacokinetics and basic prescribing & interactions (because there are a few states where the Chiro may be the only doc in a couple hundred miles, and they are allowed minor prescriptive rights under the supervision of an MD who is further away...a gray area much debated in the industry with some for, and some against). We recieve extensive training in physical medicine procedures, and in most states, compete with physical therapists for the same patients. We are taught suturing, emergency first aid, and how to deliver babies (in addition to fundamentals of OB-Gyn & adjunctive health sciences) ...again, because it only takes one state to allow the chiro to do this, and each college has to add it to their cirriculum to keep up.

Los Angeles College of Chiropractic is WASC accredited. There are several Osteopathic, Nursing and Physicians Assistant colleges that accept our units, and fast-track us to licensable degrees from their institutions. The medical college at University of California, Irvine, has implemented an alternative health survey class, at the behest of well-recognized DC+MD, Scott Haldemann (chiropractor and neurologist).

Additionally, medical doctors recieve little or no training in manual medicine procedures, or in the research related to the efficacy of such procedures. Yes, there are quacks in Chiropractic, performing muscle tests while you put goat testicle concentrate under your tongue. There are also quack MD's. Hell, there are non-quack MD's who contribute to the more than 100,000 polypharmaceutical deaths each year; or the 12,000 deaths each year from OTC pain meds. Goat testicle may be silly, but it doesn't kill anyone. BTW, does anybody know how many people die each year from AIDS? In the US, it's fewer than the number who die from OTC NSAID reactions and interactions. Anyone see a concert series and quilt criss-cross the country to raise funds for Advil awareness?

Quackwatch and chirobase have their agendas, and there is a fundamental error in critical reasoning to assume they must be correct, just because they say they are. There are multiple RCT's and metanalyses of RCT's that confirm the efficacy of Chiro care for multiple neuro-muscular-articular disorders. The state of research is ongoing, and continues to mount evidence in support of chiro for some things, and not for others. There is room in the universe for research-based chiropractic care. Even if the good Dr. Barrett does not agree. (Additionally, there are many prominent, well-trained, licensed healthcare providers - who just happen to be MD's - who refer vigorously to chiro-quacktors, because of the results we get, and because they have checked their ego's enough to recognize that their own experiences and training may not have been all-encompassing after all. Many do a better job describing HOW chiropractic works than chiropractors do).

Interesting financial motivation to agree with him: There is an organization (NCSM I believe) that disavows chiropractic for anything other than the conservative management of subacute pain disorders. Members are among the few who get green-lighted to waltz into a strange MD's office, and walk out with a new referral source.

My problem? I am a chiro, and I don't like most of them; there are too many buffoons that get into the industry, because the selection criteria for Chiro colleges is way below that of a standard med school. I also don't like MD's. Why? Because I spend much of my time fixing the problems caused by both; problems that could have been avoided if the healthcare practitioner just slowed down and thought for a moment.

Best Regards,

D.

Once again...

 

[jonah2]

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

I am sat here reading this wishing you lived in England. Ive had a few visits to different Chiro practitioners with some temporary fixes. Each one said it would be a one stop fix and never was

Hey - if you make it over this way for any reason, theres some serious steak or chinese food in it for you if you can take a look at my back. I like the use of food as currency / bribes

jonah

 

[Makalakumu]

My adjustments didn't hurt as much yesterday. I think that the I was really tense for the first couple of adjustments because I was in pain. I'm starting to feel better and get back into the swing of things...very slowly.

I still have a couple of questions that are bothering me...

1. My chiro insists that the shoes would help because I have a quarter inch differential in my leg length. I am balking however, because I am wondering how they will affect my balance. I can't wear shoes all of the time and I don't want to do something that will only go halfway.

2. Causation. I'm worried that some of the techniques that I'm doing are damaging to my back...and that it affects me worse because of the conditions that the chiro is trying to treat. He says that the techniques that I described in the other thread were probably the cause of the pain and that I would only go backward if I continued them. I haven't practiced them since my injury and I haven't spoken to my teacher yet about my problems. Anyone out there have any experience with this?

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Me again, upnorth. As a teenager, I loved being able to leap like daredevil into the air and whip off some ultracool TKD and HWD kicks. They ruined my back. Ortho wanted to do back surgery to me when I was 16-years old. Biomechanically, they are heck on the lumbopelvic junction, throaco lumbar junction, and hip sockets. All three on me have taken a beating, and look on x-ray like they belong to someone 40 years older than I. Your instructor should be willing to work with your around modifications of activities that aggravate injuries.

The facet tropism at the small of your back has already compromised your biomechanics, making it harder for you to pull off what others might. Keep in mind, just because a body CAN do a thing, doesn't mean it SHOULD do a thing. There are 2 kinds of hurt: one that suggests challenge of tissues, and one that suggests harm. Not all hurts harm. If you can identify a hurt that DOES harm, stop it. Find a modified way of doing something similar.

I wore shoe inserts for 15 years, or walked in "ortho-shaves"...cobbler-modified shoes. Nothing really got better, but my knees and hips did undergo some bone remodeling in response to the change in stress patterns. When I got my head put back on straight, the LLI went away, and the inserts that elevate started causing problems. Nevertheless, I have a neuroma on the right foor, and still wear a spreading insert if I know I'll be on my feet all day.

Good luck,

D.

 

[Carol]

Chiropractic treatment has made a HUGE quality of life difference for me.

I have a leg length difference of 3/4" (from childhood surgery). Physical Therapy didn't change anything. Orthotics were too painful. Chiropractic treatment worked very well.

 

[howard]

Chiropractors are not medical professionals and are not trained in medical diagnoses or treatment.

I'd have to disagree with that. While they are not MDs, they complete a pretty rigorous four-year curriculum of medical training that has considerable overlap with medical school programs. And they can diagnose and treat, even though they aren't permitted to prescribe controlled substances or perform surgery.

If I hadn't found a well-informed chiropractor about five years ago, I'd probably still be hobbling around on a cane. I spend nearly two years going in fruitless circles with MDs because of terrible pain deep inside both of my hip joints. Underwent all kinds of tests, tried all kinds of prescription medicines, including the now-notorious Vioxx (all to no effect). The only thing the MDs ever prescribed that helped at all was physical therapy, which I could only get a couple of times a month under the rules of my stingy medical insurance company.

Finally, I went to my Hapkido teacher's chiropractor. I wasn't really very optimistic, because my back was fine. But my teacher convinced me that this chiropractor did more than adjust the spine, and that I really had nothing to lose at that point.

The chiropractor correctly diagnosed my problem during my first visit: myofascial trigger points in several of the muscles in my buttocks and inner thighs. Probably brought on from stretching and kicking (I did Ji Do Kwan for years before deciding to focus solely on an old style of Hapkido in which almost all kicks are low). He started treating me with ultrasound, which over time breaks up the chronic contractions that are the trigger points. I finally began to get some relief from the "referred pain" that they cause, and within about six months was basically cured. I go now twice a month for maintenance.

There are many good chiropractors out there - just as there are a fair share of bad MDs out there. In my own experience, the MDs could only think of prescription drugs and surgery. The chiropractor, on the other hand, was willing to try alternatives. Furthermore, the very fact that I spent nearly two years with the MDs and not one of them ever diagnosed my condition does not improve my faith in them. After being diagnosed with trigger points, I read a fair amount about them, and learned that they are very common (probably one of the most common sources of chronic pain), and are routinely mis-diagnosed by MDs.

Just some facts from my own personal experience, for what it's worth.

 

[JamesYazell]

I'm still in high school but I would like to become a chiropractor. I recall reading that most people do not actually have one leg longer then the other but there hips are out of balance making it appear one is longer then the other. My chiropractor fixed this problem for me. He said it was likely from the kicks in karate.