Double standard

[Tez3]

Bigots don't give a crap about Jewish culture or religion. They hate Jews, and if Stone's father was Jewish, then he's Jewish - to them. And by genetics, he is one-half Jewish.

Sorry, you don't get to order your haters to hate you correctly. They hate you the way they feel like hating you.[/quote]


No idea what you are talking about because we are talking about Stone's anti semitism not the goys.

I don't correct bigots, I was correcting you. It was you who said Stone was Jewish, I'm telling YOU he's not, can't think what that has to do with me 'ordering haters'.

 

[Ramirez]

Bigots don't give a crap about Jewish culture or religion. They hate Jews, and if Stone's father was Jewish, then he's Jewish - to them. And by genetics, he is one-half Jewish.

Sorry, you don't get to order your haters to hate you correctly. They hate you the way they feel like hating you.[/quote]


No idea what you are talking about because we are talking about Stone's anti semitism not the goys.

I don't correct bigots, I was correcting you. It was you who said Stone was Jewish, I'm telling YOU he's not, can't think what that has to do with me 'ordering haters'.

Bill didn't claim Stone was jewish, but that his father was jewish , his mother was Catholic and he was raised Catholic in fact Bill has condemned anti-semitism and bigotry all through this thread and pointed out how commonplace it is.

So can we all agree bigotry should be condemned no matter who does it and who it is against?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Agreed, and I quite admire your post on how pervasive racism is , not just anti-semitism...props.

Sadly, the history of humanity is a history of us hating each other and blaming each other for our own problems. No one wants to say "I am in the mess I am in because of myself." Everything is someone else's fault.

This cuts across all cultures, all nations, all political subdivisions. Everyone has someone to hate; it may be a minority of their population that does the hating, but it appears that there is no cure for it on a systemic basis. We fight racism, bigotry, and hatred hand-to-hand and one-by-one. We try to ensure that our laws create pillars that hatred cannot dash down. We live by example and are unafraid of being hated ourselves for taking a principled stand. That's all we can do.

I would love to say that one day we will live in a world without racism and without bigotry, but I doubt it will ever happen.

Stone and Gibson are bigots? I am not really surprised. The media treats Stone differently than it treats Gibson? Well, given that the media panders to the lowest common denominator, that doesn't shock me either; Gibson is doing a fine job of public self-destruction at the moment; the public anxiously awaits his next performance.

 

[Ramirez]

okay, not sure exactly what Stone said but a google search came up with this...other sites omit the "Hitler as monster" quote.

Stone Article

Earlier this year, Stone told assembled reporters during Winter TV Press Tour that his 10-hour documentary Showtime documentary entitled "The Secret History of America" will show that Adolf Hitler was "an easy scapegoat" and will help put the mass murderer in context.

"We can't judge people as only 'bad' or 'good.' [Hitler] is the product of a series of actions," Stone says. "It's cause and effect. People in America don't know the connection between WWI and WWII."

In the Sunday Times, he notes "Hitler is a monster. There is no question... He was a crazy psychopath," explaining, "Hitler was a Frankenstein but there was also a Dr. Frankenstein. He is a product of his era."

And he points out that Hitler's rise was supported by "German industrialists, the Americans and the British. He had a lot of support."

His documentary will reveal Nazi financial ties to U.S. companies such as Ford and General Motors. which were investigated for profiting from World War II. Hitler even presented his pal Henry Ford with the Grand Service Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle in 1938.

The director also feels that "Hitler did far more damage to the Russians than the Jewish people, 25 or 30 million," says Stone, who now espouses a theory about the US obsession with the Jewish holocaust which is, you guessed it, that old bugaboo, the Jews' domination of the media.

"There's a major lobby in the United States," Stone says. "They are hard workers. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel has f***ed up United States foreign policy for years.

some of what he says I have read by historians , WW2 being an extension of WW1, Hitler being admired by portions of British and American society (Lindbergh, Joesph P. Kennedy), in fact I have read more than one biography of Churchill underlining the fact Churchill was a lone voice and marginalized for warning against Hitler.

Hitler rising to power with the approval of German industrialists is not new either.

The Russians being the real heros of WW2 I have read as well (not that I agree with it).

Where he goes wrong...at the end when he blames the US obsession with the Holocaust on the Jewish dominated media. Well there is no Jewish dominated media (no more than a liberal dominated media imo).

About the only rationalization I can make is perhaps he is talking about the millions of Ukrainians starved to death by Stalin ( estimates range from 7 to 9 million ), plus Muslims, plus "peasants". This doesn't seem to be well known in North America....I myself only heard about it at about age 22 from the son of Ukrainian immigrants in Toronto, then found out more about it later.

BTW: I have no dog in this fight but the enmity between Jews and Ukrainians seems to stem from this...the Ukrainians joined the Germans to fight the Russians...then what follows most of us know about.

Edit: just realized the whole Stalin/Ukrainian thing wasn't apparent in that link, think I saw a couple of quotes from him on Stalin in another report.

 

[Tez3]

Bill didn't claim Stone was jewish, but that his father was jewish , his mother was Catholic and he was raised Catholic in fact Bill has condemned anti-semitism and bigotry all through this thread and pointed out how commonplace it is.

So can we all agree bigotry should be condemned no matter who does it and who it is against?[/quote]


What on earth are you chuntering about? Bill said Stone was Jewish I said he wasn't, Bill posted stuff I didn't understand and now you're doing it too! All I'm saying is that Stone isn't Jewish so I don't know why you think you have to tell me he's condemned anti-semitism etc, I know he has and what does that have to do with my correcting him on Stone not being Jewish?

Quote from Bill's post

"Sorry if I was being confusing. STONE is Jewish on his father's side. His mother was Roman Catholic, and he was raised a Christian."

Do keep up.

 

[Ramirez]

Bill didn't claim Stone was jewish, but that his father was jewish , his mother was Catholic and he was raised Catholic in fact Bill has condemned anti-semitism and bigotry all through this thread and pointed out how commonplace it is.

So can we all agree bigotry should be condemned no matter who does it and who it is against?[/quote]


What on earth are you chuntering about? Bill said Stone was Jewish I said he wasn't, Bill posted stuff I didn't understand and now you're doing it too! All I'm saying is that Stone isn't Jewish so I don't know why you think you have to tell me he's condemned anti-semitism etc, I know he has and what does that have to do with my correcting him on Stone not being Jewish?

Quote from Bill's post

"Sorry if I was being confusing. STONE is Jewish on his father's side. His mother was Roman Catholic, and he was raised a Christian."

Do keep up.

Well if you wanted to correct him about Stone being Jewish, you should have left it at that, but you added more about how Jews don't find anti-semitism boring and mundane paraphrasing Bill.

Since both Bill and I were confused by your post maybe the fault is with you not us.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

What on earth are you chuntering about? Bill said Stone was Jewish I said he wasn't, Bill posted stuff I didn't understand and now you're doing it too! All I'm saying is that Stone isn't Jewish so I don't know why you think you have to tell me he's condemned anti-semitism etc, I know he has and what does that have to do with my correcting him on Stone not being Jewish?

Quote from Bill's post

"Sorry if I was being confusing. STONE is Jewish on his father's side. His mother was Roman Catholic, and he was raised a Christian."

Do keep up.

I initially said Stone's father was Jewish. When others said I claimed Stone was Jewish and he's not because it's his father and not his mother, I said that people who hate Jews don't care that Jews consider Jewish descent to be from the mother's side only. People who hate Jews consider anyone with Jewish ancestors to be Jewish. And from a DNA basis, a parent is a parent. DNA doesn't care what Jewish law is with regard to if a person is of Jewish descent or not.

I probably should have said 'Jewish descent' and not "Jewish," and for that I apologize. I fully realize that Jews consider descent from the mother's side and not the fathers.

 

[Tez3]

Well if you wanted to correct him about Stone being Jewish, you should have left it at that, but you added more about how Jews don't find anti-semitism boring and mundane paraphrasing Bill.

Since both Bill and I were confused by your post maybe the fault is with you not us.

How interesting...it's the Jew's fault is it?

Have it your way, personally I just think you don't like being contradicted and shall leave it at that.

 

[Ramirez]

How interesting...it's the Jew's fault is it?

What? You have to joking. Does every disagreement with you come down to that?

 

[Sukerkin]

Come along, ladies and gentlemen.

I know this is the Study and therefore things are a little less well mannered here and I also know that, as with far too many topics, this is one where people find it hard to keep their emotions in check.

But it does not carry the discussion forward to take the approach of battering on each other, especially when it seems to have been the result of a misreading of what was said previously.

 

[Tez3]

What? You have to joking. Does every disagreement with you come down to that?

Hardly, I think. first time I've tried that 'excuse' and only to get the reaction I know I would and have been proved right. Besides I said personally I believed you were just miffed because you like to be right in all senses of the word. Me, I'm a Liberal in all the best senses of the word which has nothing to do with what you think liberals are. Even Churchill was a Liberal as were Gladstone, Asquith and Lloyd George. Liberalism has a long and serious history here as does retaining a sense of humour when talking and dealing with politics.

There must be something about politics in the USA that turns people into frothy mouthed ranters. All sense of humour flees, all sense of proportion trollops out of the window. Someone says something, is corrected, apologises then others jump on the bandwagon lecturing and hectoring. What fun saith I.
Anyone can post here, any other one can reply but what isn't polite is another someone butting in and making unwarrented comments. If Bill says he finds something boring and I say I don't, that's a conversation. It's the main programme of the thread, your posts was like the ads that come on in between.

 

[Ramirez]

BTW:

Stone has apologized , twice....so we have one "liberal" condemning his remarks, Stone himself.

http://www.jpost.com/ArtsAndCulture/Entertainment/Article.aspx?id=182995

 

[CanuckMA]

BTW:

Stone has apologized , twice....so we have one "liberal" condemning his remarks, Stone himself.

http://www.jpost.com/ArtsAndCulture/Entertainment/Article.aspx?id=182995

He got caught saying what he believes, and now is trying to do damage control.

 

[Sukerkin]

I really wouldn't think that Oliver Stone gives a flying hawumptafudge about what most of the world thinks.

It is one trait of his that I have ever admired, given his chosen path of film-making. That might seem at odds with my reverence for polite interaction and reasonable sensitivity to other peoples feelings but when it comes to the producers of thought-provoking media, I far prefer them to offend than offer up something bland and 'content-free'.

Thinking about it, didn't I say much the same thing when the forum was frothing for blood about Gibson's "The Passion of Christ"?

 

[chrispillertkd]

And the saintly right? No racists there.

Oh, for the love of Pete, please read my posts. I've already agreed that there are racists on both ends of the political spectrum. My last post stated that I agreed with Bill on that point.

The point of my posts is that it's inherently more dangerous when racism is "dressed up" to appear somehow intellectual. No where in my posts can you get that I think the right has no racists.

Pax,

Chris

 

[CanuckMA]

The point of my posts is that it's inherently more dangerous when racism is "dressed up" to appear somehow intellectual. No where in my posts can you get that I think the right has no racists.

Pax,

Chris

Well said. When neo-Nazis parade on the streets shouting "kill the Jews", everybody pretty much condems them.

But when people start with the 'in context'. 're-examine the evidence', and all that other horse-crap, it is a lot more insidious and dangerous. And that's why you'l see people like Tez and me fly off on those, because we know what happenned, very personnaly.