Double standard

[Sukerkin]

Where can we find a full transcript of this interview?

I'd like to read for myself and decide for myself if there is rabid anti-Semitic sentiment behind what he said or if it is being seized upon to generate a furore when such is not warranted. After all, if you substituted "English" into what the OP reported Oliver Stone said, then noone would have batted an eyelid.

 

[Ramirez]

It's not erally an assumption. It's a conclusion, based on Rubin's and other media figures own actions. Rubin could easily prove me wrong, however (which I would love him to do) and demonstrate that for the media establishment anti-Semitism from a leftist non-Christian is as repugnant as anti-Semitism from a conservative Christian.



Chris

Didn't watch the video of Rubin's and Gibson's interview did you....or you didn't get the whole "you have a dog in this fight" comment by Gibson....Rubin is Jewish...according to your logic he is

1) in the media
2) therefore Liberal
3) has commented on Gibson but not Stone.

So must not care about Stone's anti-semitic comments.....yeah right.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Didn't watch the video of Rubin's and Gibson's interview did you....or you didn't get the whole "you have a dog in this fight" comment by Gibson....Rubin is Jewish...according to your logic he is

1) in the media
2) therefore Liberal
3) has commented on Gibson but not Stone.

So must not care about Stone's anti-semitic comments.....yeah right.[/quote]

I don't think that qualifies as "my logic." Like I said, I don't know what Rubin's political leaning are. He has commented on Gibson. He has not, as far as I can tell, commented on Stone, which would be simplicity itself to do. Perhpas I have just missed it. Please provide the link of Rubin doing so if you know of one.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Ramirez]

. He has not, as far as I can tell, commented on Stone, which would be simplicity itself to do. Perhpas I have just missed it. Please provide the link of Rubin doing so if you know of one.

Pax,

Chris

WTF? The guy is jewish...by what alternate universe do you live in do you think he wouldn't care about Stone's comments if he has heard them?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

WTF? The guy is jewish...by what alternate universe do you live in do you think he wouldn't care about Stone's comments if he has heard them?

Stone is Jewish by his father's side, as I recall. However, I agree with you on this issue.

For what it may be worth, I see 418 mainstream media stories about Stone regarding his statements. I see that nearly every single one of them makes at least one reference to Gibson.

There is no double-standard that I can see. Like you, I believe Gibson got the news spotlight due to two things: his previous anti-Semitic rant and his most recently made-public meltdown. We as a people are not just fascinated by haters, but also by haters who are clearly coming undone.

The mainstream media is neither fair nor balanced. And I believe that it tilts clearly to the left. However, in this instance, I believe it is the public's prurient interest that prevails. We love salacious stories of people in high places behaving badly. A statement made by a famous director at a press conference is a lot less interesting, no matter how horrible it is, than a movie star making a similar statement in a drunken rant whilst demanding oral sex before threatening to burn his own house down. No contest.

I don't feel it has much to do with the personal politics of Stone or Gibson.

Fair enough to condemn Antisemitism wherever it occurs?

 

[Ramirez]

Fair enough to condemn Antisemitism wherever it occurs?

exactly , and while we are at it let's start out a thread on why Gibson's reference to n*ggers didn't seem to garner as much attention as his anti-semitic rants....must be the liberal MSM of course doesn't care about blacks.

 

[chrispillertkd]

WTF? The guy is jewish...by what alternate universe do you live in do you think he wouldn't care about Stone's comments if he has heard them?

I don't know anyting about Rubin. If he is, as Bill stated, Jewish on his father's side he's not actually jewish (unless he converted). Judaism traces lineage by the mother's side.

Perhaps he does find Oliver Stone's anti-Semitism horrible. I have seen no evidence that he does, however. And you haven't supplied any. I'd love to see video of him denouncing Stone for being a bigot and for thinking Hitler needs to be put "in context." Rarely have I heard anything so asinine. But I haven't seen any of that, despite asking you to provide a link.

Let us grant for the sake of argument that Rubin does find Stone's anti-Semitism to be horrible just like the rest of us do. I still don't understand why he wouldn't treat him the same way he treated Gibson. Is it because Gibson is a drunk with emotional problems and Stone came off as being cool, clam and collected? (That seems to be what you intimated in previous postings. Stone isn't newsworthy because he's not a raving nut.) Personally, I have a much bigger problem with people who come to their bigoted positions after "much thought and consideration" and just want to put things "in context." It's all so educated and civilized, not like those stoopid red necks. Except for one thing; when it's presented as being educated and civilized it can do a lot more damage by influencing others than the good old boy in his pick-up, or the ranting alcoholic like Gibson. Stone gives anti-Semitism the veneer of respectibility. That is why it's newsworthy and, in the long run, more dangerous than Gibson's drunken ravings.

If Rubin isn't replying because of Stone's delivery it's just a vindication of the article from the Huffington Post I posted. The subtlety of the Left's anti-Semitism is what makes it particularly dangerous.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I don't know anyting about Rubin. If he is, as Bill stated, Jewish on his father's side he's not actually jewish (unless he converted). Judaism traces lineage by the mother's side.

Sorry if I was being confusing. STONE is Jewish on his father's side. His mother was Roman Catholic, and he was raised a Christian.

Perhaps he does find Oliver Stone's anti-Semitism horrible. I have seen no evidence that he does, however. And you haven't supplied any. I'd love to see video of him denouncing Stone for being a bigot and for thinking Hitler needs to be put "in context." Rarely have I heard anything so asinine. But I haven't seen any of that, despite asking you to provide a link.

You're demanding that people be as outraged as you are. They're not. Time to get over that. The world is actually full of Antisemitism. As I posted not long ago in this thread, fully 10% of the US population believes that Jews control the media. It's common and it's boring. It's not news.

Let us grant for the sake of argument that Rubin does find Stone's anti-Semitism to be horrible just like the rest of us do. I still don't understand why he wouldn't treat him the same way he treated Gibson. Is it because Gibson is a drunk with emotional problems and Stone came off as being cool, clam and collected? (That seems to be what you intimated in previous postings. Stone isn't newsworthy because he's not a raving nut.) Personally, I have a much bigger problem with people who come to their bigoted positions after "much thought and consideration" and just want to put things "in context." It's all so educated and civilized, not like those stoopid red necks. Except for one thing; when it's presented as being educated and civilized it can do a lot more damage by influencing others than the good old boy in his pick-up, or the ranting alcoholic like Gibson. Stone gives anti-Semitism the veneer of respectibility. That is why it's newsworthy and, in the long run, more dangerous than Gibson's drunken ravings.

That's your opinion. I agree that antisemitism is much more dangerous, insidious, and horrible than drunken rantings about hummers and arson. However, the public is an ***. The public likes loud noise and shiny things. And the press sells whatever the public is buying. This should not come as a shock to you.

If Rubin isn't replying because of Stone's delivery it's just a vindication of the article from the Huffington Post I posted. The subtlety of the Left's anti-Semitism is what makes it particularly dangerous.

Pax,

Chris

Also in the study I posted, it says that Democrats are much more likely to be antisemitic than Republicans. This is, however, just the most recent reversal of a long-standing trend the other way. So nobody gets the bye on this. No one's hands are clean.

We're a nation of bigots. Our history is one of racial and religious intolerance, with a notable effort to control by laws what we as a people cannot seem to control in our own souls. Adolph Freaking Hitler though VERY HIGHLY of Henry Ford's antisemitism, and a copy of Ford's antisemitic pamphlets was found in his library. He kept a portrait of Ford on his wall, for God's sake.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F3071EFD3A5C1B7A93C6A91783D85F4C8385F9

NAZI HONOR TO FORD STIRS CANTOR'S IRE; Comedian Thinks Auto Man Is 'Damned Fool' for Letting Hitler Give Him Citation WARNS OF ANTI-SEMITISM Pleads for Active Opposition as Jewish Women Honor Him for Aid to Refugees


August 4, 1938, Thursday
Page 13, 654 words
Warning against a spread of antiSemitism in this country, Eddie Cantor, comedian, bitterly denounced Henry Ford for accepting a decoration from the German Government last Saturday. He spoke at a testimonial luncheon in the Hotel Astor yesterday to honor him for his work in behalf of Jewish refugee children.

If you read history, you see that at the time of the ascent of Hitler, most of Europe and the UK and the USA had strong antisemitic movements within them. The USA was the LEADER in the Eugenics movement prior to the rise of the Third Reich. It was only the extreme barbarism of the Nazis that shocked the American public to the extent that it became very unpopular to be pro-Nazi or anti-Jew or pro-Eugenics.

In other words, if we hadn't fought Germany, we might well have become just like them. We thought that there was a "Jewish Problem" too.

So no, nothing Gibson says shocks me, nor anything Stone says. Antisemitism is boring, stupid, asinine, and of course evil. But it's mundane everyday evil. Newsworthy? I could walk down my street knocking on doors and I'd find someone who who believes that the Jews control the world, the media, the banking industry, or whatever. We're a nation of bigots. One more or less isn't news.

 

[Tez3]

Stone isn't Jewish, if his mother had been he would have been too. Having a Jewish father doesn't make you Jewish.

To me, the fact that people think we control the media isn't boring and it's not common, it's worrying. How long do you think it is between thinking the Jews control things to people wanting to and actually killing them? Not nearly as long as you think.

Anti Semitism may be mundane to the people who don't suffer from it, it's far from boring having to cope with it, its horrific and it needs fighting not accepting.

 

[James Kovacich]

Stone isn't Jewish, if his mother had been he would have been too. Having a Jewish father doesn't make you Jewish.
.

Maybe not Jewish faith but definately 50% Jewish ancestry.

 

[Tez3]

Maybe not Jewish faith but definately 50% Jewish ancestry.

Well, that makes a difference.

What's faith got to do with it?

If Judaism is a religion having Jewish father means nothing. If being Jewish means we are a race then he has Jewish ancestry along with a lot of other people. It still means nothing as Jewish law says he's not Jewish so he's not Jewish. As far as his mother and father are concerned..... they obviously didn't raise him properly.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Sorry if I was being confusing. STONE is Jewish on his father's side. His mother was Roman Catholic, and he was raised a Christian.

Then Stone isn't a Jew. A Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish. At least since the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.

You're demanding that people be as outraged as you are. They're not. Time to get over that.

I'm not demanding anything. I'm questioning. I also think it's highly dangerous to ignore the subtle anti-Semitism of the left. It's much more insideous than the steryotypical raving lunatic. He can be easily ignored or ridiculed into irrelevance. Someone like Stone who appears at least somewhat intellectual and a darling of the media is not so easily dismissed by people who want to appear open-minded themselves.

The world is actually full of Antisemitism. As I posted not long ago in this thread, fully 10% of the US population believes that Jews control the media. It's common and it's boring. It's not news.

Not in the sense of appealing to the people's lowest common denominator, their purient intersts, so to speak. But it damn well is news in the sense that it's dangerous.

That's your opinion. I agree that antisemitism is much more dangerous, insidious, and horrible than drunken rantings about hummers and arson. However, the public is an ***. The public likes loud noise and shiny things. And the press sells whatever the public is buying. This should not come as a shock to you.

And sometimes the public needs to be confronted with what is actually important instead of giving them bread and circuses. While the idiot drunk can be an entertaining distraction at times you can't have a functioning society without actual news.

Also in the study I posted, it says that Democrats are much more likely to be antisemitic than Republicans. This is, however, just the most recent reversal of a long-standing trend the other way. So nobody gets the bye on this. No one's hands are clean.

I don't think anyone is imply that.

If you read history, you see that at the time of the ascent of Hitler, most of Europe and the UK and the USA had strong antisemitic movements within them. The USA was the LEADER in the Eugenics movement prior to the rise of the Third Reich. It was only the extreme barbarism of the Nazis that shocked the American public to the extent that it became very unpopular to be pro-Nazi or anti-Jew or pro-Eugenics.

This actually relates to my point. In America, Europe, even NAZI Germany anti-Semitism was fostered by the "intellectuals." In the 20th century (and even the 19th) eugenics was respectable, and is becoming more so today.

So no, nothing Gibson says shocks me, nor anything Stone says. Antisemitism is boring, stupid, asinine, and of course evil. But it's mundane everyday evil. Newsworthy? I could walk down my street knocking on doors and I'd find someone who who believes that the Jews control the world, the media, the banking industry, or whatever. We're a nation of bigots. One more or less isn't news.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Ramirez]

. I also think it's highly dangerous to ignore the subtle anti-Semitism of the left.

,

Chris

And the saintly right? No racists there.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Stone isn't Jewish, if his mother had been he would have been too. Having a Jewish father doesn't make you Jewish.

To me, the fact that people think we control the media isn't boring and it's not common, it's worrying. How long do you think it is between thinking the Jews control things to people wanting to and actually killing them? Not nearly as long as you think.

Anti Semitism may be mundane to the people who don't suffer from it, it's far from boring having to cope with it, its horrific and it needs fighting not accepting.

I didn't suggest accepting it. I said it is a boring story and banal evil.

And yes, it is common. Fully 1/10 of the US population thinks Jews control the media. That's common. Evil, but common.

Yes, it does need to be fought.

And I'm aware that Jewish cultural descent is counted from the maternal side. DNA doesn't care about Jewish culture, it is what it is. Stone's father was Jewish, he's half-Jewish by DNA. That's just the way it is.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Well, that makes a difference.

What's faith got to do with it?

If Judaism is a religion having Jewish father means nothing. If being Jewish means we are a race then he has Jewish ancestry along with a lot of other people. It still means nothing as Jewish law says he's not Jewish so he's not Jewish. As far as his mother and father are concerned..... they obviously didn't raise him properly.

Bigots don't give a crap about Jewish culture or religion. They hate Jews, and if Stone's father was Jewish, then he's Jewish - to them. And by genetics, he is one-half Jewish.

Sorry, you don't get to order your haters to hate you correctly. They hate you the way they feel like hating you.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

And the saintly right? No racists there.

Nobody has a lock on it. Let's not make this about left and right, m'kay? Both sides have plenty of booger-eatin' morons who dislike Jews and blame them for all their ills. At the moment, apparently the Democrats have more, but that's just a temporary aberration; the right has traditionally had more bigots. But both sides, both sides, are chock-full of bigots.

All clear?

 

[James Kovacich]

Well, that makes a difference.

What's faith got to do with it?

If Judaism is a religion having Jewish father means nothing. If being Jewish means we are a race then he has Jewish ancestry along with a lot of other people. It still means nothing as Jewish law says he's not Jewish so he's not Jewish. As far as his mother and father are concerned..... they obviously didn't raise him properly.

And what does American law say? He's 50% or 1/2 Jewish by international standards.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

And what does American law say? He's 50% or 1/2 Jewish by international standards.

American law no longer gives percentages for racial self-identification. By law, he's whatever he says he is.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Then Stone isn't a Jew. A Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish. At least since the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.

Bigots don't care.

I'm not demanding anything. I'm questioning. I also think it's highly dangerous to ignore the subtle anti-Semitism of the left. It's much more insideous than the steryotypical raving lunatic. He can be easily ignored or ridiculed into irrelevance. Someone like Stone who appears at least somewhat intellectual and a darling of the media is not so easily dismissed by people who want to appear open-minded themselves.

Then that's YOUR job. The media will do what it does. It doesn't care about confronting evil, it cares about selling newspapers or laundry detergent.

Not in the sense of appealing to the people's lowest common denominator, their purient intersts, so to speak. But it damn well is news in the sense that it's dangerous.

Nobody cares. You do, I do, but the majority of people? Nada.

And sometimes the public needs to be confronted with what is actually important instead of giving them bread and circuses. While the idiot drunk can be an entertaining distraction at times you can't have a functioning society without actual news.

You're not in charge of what the public needs. The media isn't given the task of informing the citizenry of evil afoot. It exists to serve itself, like any business.

This actually relates to my point. In America, Europe, even NAZI Germany anti-Semitism was fostered by the "intellectuals." In the 20th century (and even the 19th) eugenics was respectable, and is becoming more so today.

The intellectuals and the common man both hated them some Jews. Still do.

It's an insidious evil, it's a reflection of how horrible we as a race (the HUMAN race) can be towards each other, but it is what it is. I don't propose doing nothing, but it's not the media's job to snap to because you think it needs to be confronted. You want to confront, confront away. I do.

 

[Ramirez]

Nobody has a lock on it. Let's not make this about left and right, m'kay?

Agreed, and I quite admire your post on how pervasive racism is , not just anti-semitism...props.