Don't tell them you know martial arts

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by PhotonGuy, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    PhotonGuy, do you think that these teens were too young to know that what they were doing was wrong? Do you think they deserved to be tried as adults?

    Personally, I think you raise an interesting point. People have to be accountable for their actions. We have juvenile laws precisely because sometimes good kids do really stupid things, because they're half baked adults. But, sometimes, the things they do are so agregious that they are not excusable. In some cases, the actions are so bad that they can change the course of that child's life forever. As a parent, I'll say my goal isn't to create perfect children who never make mistakes. Rather, it's to guide them and prevent them from making mistakes that they can't learn from or recover from.

    Considering this occurred so long ago, I looked up the results. There were actually 8 teens involved, some as young as 15, and the oldest was, I believe 19 at the time. Interesting that none received punishment that would ruin their lives, although it certainly could have turned out worse. The victim in all of this, Victoria Lindsay, seems to have some personal issues, as well. Her mugshot is below from a few years later.

    Error

    As for the teens involved, a summary of the final court decisions for each are below:

     
  2. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Waiving a juvenile to adult court is not all that common, and far from easy. Generally, it's limited to very serious offenses, often committed by offenders who have a long history. Almost always, it's violent offenses.
     
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  3. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    There is a huge difference between being a fool and not knowing right from wrong. It should shock me that you'd make a suggestion like this, but it really doesn't.
     
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  4. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    So you're saying I don't know the difference between being a fool and what's right and wrong? Interesting you should make such assumptions about me since you don't know me from Adam.
     
  5. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Well there's this other case which also was in Florida which occurred just a few years after the Victoria Lindsay case was this other case where Wayne Treacy smashed in Josie Lou Ratley's skull and ended up getting a 20 year prison sentence. Wayne was 15 at the time. I posed this story before but here is the link.
    Wayne Treacy Teenager jailed for 20 years for stomping on girl s head with steel-toed boots outside school Daily Mail Online
     
  6. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    At 15 your old enough to know kicking someone on the head with a steel toe boot is wrong and can cause serious bodily injury or death. In this state some crimes if committed by juveniles are automatically waved to adult court. 15 year old stopping a girls head in with boots would qualify. I'm not sure what juveniles being waved to adults have to do with your topic however BUT this is a classic example of why your threads go off topic like I said before it's normally you that derail your own threads
     
  7. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Based on your posts yes that's exactly what is being stated
     
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  8. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Right but those girls who beat up that cheerleader really badly, supposedly even though they were initially going to be charged as adults they all got lighter sentences and supposedly some or all of them are not going to have permanent records. Wayne Treacy on the other hand is getting a 20 year prison sentence and a permanent record. It probably has something to do with the fact that Wayne Treacy was a boy and he was stomping a girl's head. When a boy commits such an act against a girl you can expect a heavier sentence.

    As for me derailing threads I can be random.
     
  9. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    A fool is a person who lacks good sense or judgement. That can include not knowing right and wrong.

    And its hard to make assumptions about somebody when you don't know them from Adam.
     
  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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  11. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    All that can depend on hundreds of different factors including state and local laws, who got better lawyers, who got better prosecutors, judges mood that day, what please deals were worked out, victims wishes, suspects remorse, past police contact, who got paid what under the table, how the stars and moon were aligned that day. SO just remember two cases are ever alike and you can't really compare them.
     
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  12. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You right all I can judge are your posts and well..............
     
  13. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    This contradicts my post how? Waiving is rare enough to be newsworthy, and I think the offense here would qualify as rather serious.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  14. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Most certainly. It does make communication with you unique.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  15. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Your point? Many of us are quite familiar with mens rea as well as actus reus... and also mala in se and mala prohibida. I'm not even sure what your resonding to here...
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You get young enough and it becomes almost impossible to pin a kid for a crime.

    So it factors in regarding children and legal responsibility for their actions.
     
  17. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    True. The general rule is that a child below the she of reason (typically age 7) cannot commit a crime. Serious misbehavior that might be more criminal in nature is dealt with in other ways. Even into the early teens, it's not that common for criminal punishment.

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  18. MaxRob

    MaxRob Orange Belt

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    The issue often is use of excessive force, but in the end I would only use my tequniques to defend my life and those I love.... Don't see an issue in Court you have aright to defend your life.However not disclosing your practice in martial arts has its advantages,when the time comes for real self defense your opponents don't see you coming, you have a surprise advantage.Avoiding one using a firearm against you simply because they know they cannot mess with you in an unarmed attack123
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015

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