Does WSLVT exist?

[Wing Chun Auckland]

How do you know these guys?

Darren Elvie is not in this video.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

By the way those guys will play around with a range of hooks from wide to tight.

They are aware of how they could get knocked out with hooks. They play around with random attacks and spar etc.

Here is a clip of the Melbourne school:

 

[Phobius]

I see he teaches to walk straight into retarded round punches from out of range with a direct application from one of the forms. This is a stupid idea that will get people knocked out and is a technique-based approach to what they claim is a concept/principle-based system.

I know the people who organize those gatherings. A small group of them are all close buddies who share the same ridiculous ideas about VT each having spent very little time with WSL. I am not a fan.

It has been shared countless times on this forum. I don't feel like rehashing it all again because it gets people's panties all in a twist.

If you're right, DP did not spend much time with WSL. Did you spend more time with him?

Also the drill above looks silly on one point. Those punches are not realistic. I think it is important to learn to punch as expected before doing said punching drill.

This is just a small group of people however?

 

[LFJ]

How do you know these guys?

Darren Elvie is not in this video.

The guys in the video? I don't. They are a branch of his though.

If you're right, DP did not spend much time with WSL. Did you spend more time with him?

Who one has learned from and how long they spent with them is not the point. What matters is what they received, or didn't receive.

It's just an observable fact that those who spent very little time with WSL have a shallow, technique-based understanding of the system and know almost nothing about VT fighting strategy.

Those who are several generations removed from WSL, but in a line through someone who spent a substantial amount of time with him have an entirely different (coherent, functional) understanding of the system and fighting strategy.

Also the drill above looks silly on one point. Those punches are not realistic. I think it is important to learn to punch as expected before doing said punching drill.

Yes. The punches are thrown at the space two feet to the side of the defender's head with no real intent or power. The proposed response will not work against a real punch.

Even if the technique could somehow hold up, they are walking straight into the punch from out of range with both arms extended. It's a terrible lack of fighting strategy that will get them knocked out for sure.

This is just a small group of people however?

Unfortunately, no. There's a small group of people who hold these ideas, in Hong Kong and Australia, but teach it to many students while attempting to hold gatekeeper status in the lineage.

 

[KPM]

Same goes with people that consider it different to what they do. Sometimes they do not care enough to state their own ways.

----Sometimes people don't state their own ways because they know the person asking isn't interested in what they do for good reasons, but only interested in what they do so they can state how wrong it is compared to what THEY do! So they figure it is just better to avoid an argument and move on. Silence does not equal consent!



Now this last behavior is what is called trolling. You offend people to get them to write when they would otherwise not. As such the threads will derail and the troll can keep insulting people. Given that the troll knows what he/she knows what they are doing, they themselves do not get offended.

---Exactly! Stating "tell me more about the HKM lineage" after just insulting the person you are asking this of, and where the intent sure seems to be to look for something to criticize....is trolling plain and simple.

 

[KPM]

So when I talk substance, topics go silent because people are either agreeing with me or they don't care to state their own ways?

Then why join a MA discussion forum if all they want to do is cry when people undermine their beliefs?

If they can't even handle logical criticism of what they do and defend their methods, it's hard to believe I'm talking to a group of fighters.

Why try and carry on any kind of discussion with someone with a track record like yours? Why try and carry on any kind of discussion when it is clear that you are simply looking for things to "undermine" and criticize? Why try and carry on any kind of discussion with a pompous a55 that is convinced that his way is the only correct way and everyone else is wrong? Is that the kind of person you would seek out for conversation in the pub or over dinner? Not me!

 

[LFJ]

Stating "tell me more about the HKM lineage" after just insulting the person you are asking this of, and where the intent sure seems to be to look for something to criticize....is trolling plain and simple.

Pointing out a perceived flaw is not a personal insult, and if there is something to be criticized, why get upset about it unless you're not interested in improving?

Either clarify the misjudgment or acknowledge the validity and seek betterment. Crying about it helps nothing and ruins the discussion.

I'm never looking for something to criticize. I have no ill-will toward any lineage. Unfortunately, the problems are often so glaring like the dead wu-sau in the most recent HKM lineage video I broke down, which is detrimental to LSJC. You rather I pat your backs and say 'good job' anyway? I can't be so insincere.

 

[KPM]

^^^^^^ Like I said, pompous a55. Why would anyone want to carry on a discussion with you?

 

[LFJ]

Just resort back to name-calling instead...

 

[SaulGoodman]

Why try and carry on any kind of discussion with someone with a track record like yours? Why try and carry on any kind of discussion when it is clear that you are simply looking for things to "undermine" and criticize? Why try and carry on any kind of discussion with a pompous a55 that is convinced that his way is the only correct way and everyone else is wrong? Is that the kind of person you would seek out for conversation in the pub or over dinner? Not me!

I get the impression that face to face this individual's demeanour would be slightly different to his internet "persona"...

 

[KPM]

Just resort back to name-calling instead...

Its not name-calling when you keep proving my point!

 

[Vajramusti]

I'm never looking for something to criticize. I have no ill-will toward any lineage. Unfortunately, the problems are often so glaring like the dead wu-sau in the most recent HKM lineage video I broke down, which is detrimental to LSJC. You rather I pat your backs and say 'good job' anyway? I can't be so insincere.[/QUOTE]
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I don't know whose dead wu is being referred to here. Does not matter.

 

[LFJ]

Does not matter.

Then why post?

 

[Dylan9d]

I have been following this post for a while now and man! what can WC/VT/WT people type. You reckon the old masters did it the same way and sent eachother letters.

I would say, have a big event going for all the MT KungFu guys and fight eachother and see whos best, I think that was the Ving Tsun way in the past right?

I thought Silat guys were always acting like bickering children.....

 

[Vajramusti]

Why try and carry on any kind of discussion with someone with a track record like yours? Why try and carry on any kind of discussion when it is clear that you are simply looking for things to "undermine" and criticize? Why try and carry on any kind of discussion with a pompous a55 that is convinced that his way is the only correct way and everyone else is wrong? Is that the kind of person you would seek out for conversation in the pub or over dinner? Not me!

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No point in asking or commenting IMO

 

[geezer]

I see he teaches to walk straight into retarded round punches from out of range with a direct application from one of the forms. This is a stupid idea that will get people knocked out and is a technique-based approach to what they claim is a concept/principle-based system.
I know the people who organize those gatherings. A small group of them are all close buddies who share the same ridiculous ideas about VT each having spent very little time with WSL. I am not a fan.
It has been shared countless times on this forum. I don't feel like rehashing it all again because it gets people's panties all in a twist.

Yeah, I can sure see why. For one thing he does what people variously call "biu-da" or "fook-da" as a counter, which is pretty close to a "tan-da" in concept. (just a little stronger structurally) ...and you and Guy have told us that real WSL VT doesn't use that approach.

BTW if WSL VT is so stucturally coherent, being based on clearly defined scientific principles that work equally for everybody, yada yada yada.... , why then do all these other groups (Gary Lan, David Peterson, this guy -- Darren Elvey, et. al.) take the system in directions that you WSL-PB guys think is so flawed? Are the principles that tough to understand?

 

[geezer]

I thought Silat guys were always acting like bickering children.....

Hey, whattya you got against children!!! I never saw children carry on bickering this long!

 

[guy b.]

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No point in asking or commenting IMO

Yet you commented. Why?

 

[guy b.]

Why would anyone want to carry on a discussion with you?

You are carrying on a discussion with LFJ when you don't want to? That is a strange thing to do.

 

[guy b.]

Pointing out a perceived flaw is not a personal insult, and if there is something to be criticized, why get upset about it unless you're not interested in improving?

Pointing out a perceived flaw can only be helpful for everyone involved. I can see no reason for anyone to be insulted.

You rather I pat your backs and say 'good job' anyway? I can't be so insincere.

It does seem that this is what some people prefer. I can't understand why. Makes no sense.