Do you ever feel as if the Wing Chun we Learn today isn't original?

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by ipmann97, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    I've been learning wing chun for 5 years and I feel as if it has been changed to much from it's origins and I think it's wrong to change the style and then teach the new way. If you change the style keep it to yourself and teach everyone else the way you were taught.

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  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you have this kind of attitude, all your life you may be a good "copy machine", no more and no less. Is that what you want to be?

    - After DOS has been evolved into Window, do you still use DOS?
    - Do you still use your pager (beeper)?

    In the river, the back wave will push the front wave. The front wave will crash onto the rock. That's the law of nature.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  3. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    90% of Wing Chun styles out there are robotic with no body movement, I'm all about expressing and adapting yourself to new styles but that doesn't mean mix it up with your own style and then try teaching everyone else it as if it's your own style. I've always been taught to use the body and be free with expression. Bruce Lee developed Jeet Kun Do because it suited him personally but that doesn't mean everyone can use it. Learn a style then adjust it for yourself, don't try changing the style for everyone.

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  4. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    How so? In what ways?

    Can you go into deeper detail as to what is meant by 'changing the style' and 'teach the new way'.
     
  5. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    I mean like if you master Wing Chun and then decide to master Taekwondo then feel free to combine it but if your gunna teach Wing Chun then by all means teach Wing Chun as the combination wouldn't suit everyone and if someone wants to learn wing chun then that's all they wanna learn.

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  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    You have assumed that the ancient material is better than the modern material.

    By using your approach, you learn WC from your teacher, you adjust it for yourself. When you teach your students, you still teach the same way as your teacher taught you. All your personal experience will be lost forever.

    If you can't contribute anything to the WC system, you are just a copy machine. If you don't write any books, you are only a reader. You will never be a writer. Do you want to be a copy machine and reader for the rest of your life?
     
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  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    WC doesn't have roundhouse kick. If you add roundhouse kick into WC, that will be a plus.

    A + B > A
     
  8. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    No doubt about it but it's not wing chun if your gunna change it all the time, if your teaching Wing Chun then teach pure Wing Chun.

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  9. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    It absolutely should evolve. All styles need to evolve to stay relevant. Bruce lee did exactly he evolved wing chun and created a newer style from it.

    To many people are stuck In the past and refuse to change what they do because that's the way some guy did it hundreds of years ago. Well no everyone has to adapt. No one should be teaching to do it exactly one way. Everyone's different and needs to do it differently
     
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  10. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    That's fine if you just want to learn history but if you want it for fighting who gives a damm what's pure and what's not pure if I'm learning I want to learn what works to protect myself. So you'd rather stay learning something less just because it's "pure"?

    Everyone changes the style. Do you believe ip mans wing chun is the same as dan innosantos do you believe his is the same as William cheungs. If people didnt change stuff then martial arts would never move forward
     
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  11. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    Feel free to change it but I just find it of putting when someone advertises or decides to start teaching Wing Chun with a bit of Muay Thai or Taekwondo or anything but by all means learn it for yourself just don't try making your own Wing Chun and teaching it as if it's your own new style.

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  12. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Ok you find it off putting then dont train with those people then. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do it just because you don't like it. Some may prefer that. Also if they mix wing chun with Muay Thai or taekwondo then that is their own style simple as that. Nothing wrong with it at all
     
  13. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    I'm not saying it's bad just don't teach someone that people aren't after. Like my teacher, one of his black belts teaches and he spent one month in China and did Shoulin so now he tries to mix it with Wing Chun and even watches videos on YouTube of it to learn more. Personally I don't think he should be using or teaching a move he's never been taught.

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  14. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Good for him he's becoming a better martial artist because of it. Like I said just because /you/ don't want it why would that mean no else wants it. If someone's filling wing chuns holes that can only be a good thing. Maybe you should try learning new stuff instead of having a closed mind it may help you improve
     
  15. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    I got nothing against doing other styles with Wing Chun and I've tried doing other style but nothing else has the same feeling as Wing Chun not even other wing chun schools and I haven't seen any of them use the body from feet to head. But only from the knees or elbows.

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  16. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Well fine that's up to you but it doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. You do what you want and let everyone else do what they want
     
  17. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    Agreed

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  18. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    First Yeh Men's WC was not pure to start with. He added the staff form into his WC. If he added a sword form into his WC instead, how will you be able to know the difference?

    How will you be able to teach your students the

    - pure WC (your teacher's WC), and
    - WC+ (your WC)?

    If you teach your students both WC and WC+, you student then teach his students WC, WC+, and WC++, how will people be able to separate WC, WC+, WC++. WC+++. ... in the future?
     
  19. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Also how do you know your wing chun is pure? Maybe your teacher added some stuff themselves and just hasn't said maybe he's slightly altered certain moves how would you know if they have or haven't?
     
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  20. ipmann97

    ipmann97 Yellow Belt

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    Very true and it's a shame that we can't go back to pure origins, my school doesn't teach the authentic Wing Chun guard so I've wanted to know why Wing Chun use or and how. My Sui Lim Tai, Chum Kui and Bill Jee is different to everyone else's and even though we come from William Cheung even in his videos it's still different to what I know.....

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