Do not disagree vs. agree

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    You were using a form as an example so there is always room for improvement.
     
  2. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Well, I have to disagree with that. If the comment says they disagree, that is pretty hard to misinterpret. Speaking in generalities will get you in trouble often.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I don’t not disagree.
     
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  4. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Option 2 I do plenty of times. Because by the time I see the post, someone has already posted either better feedback or a lot of feedback. Me adding more has the chance of overwhelming someone, so I just leave it out.
     
  5. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Its tough to misinterpret someone saying they disagree. But it's easy to misinterpret a comment, or not being sure if you agree or disagree with it.

    As a pretty out there example, but all that's coming to my head: you could say, with no context/unclear context, that it's important to flow like water in martial arts. If you mean that you should be able to adapt to different situations, or take in new information, then I agree with you. If you mean that you should move between different martial arts and constantly change, I disagree with you. Some posters on here (not you) take any questions as disagreement. So I might say "I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but what do you mean when you say to flow like water?"
     
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  6. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Does this count as a double negative, or triple?
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    This really depends on a lot of things. I’m not a fan of 1. But there are times when 2, 3, or 4 might be just fine. Your comment is very egocentric, presuming that the goal is to help you. It also presumes that you don’t have the ability to analyze the feedback and figure out the what/how of constructive feedback on your own.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Triple.
     
  9. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    You want to try for a quad? Does anybody know what the worlds record is?

    To keep this fair, I think we should agree that the sentence must make some sort of sense. Not just saying "I don't not didn't not [blah blah]."
     
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  10. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I don't think you aren't completely not wrong.
     
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  11. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    That's still only a triple... come on.... I don't not think you can't do better even if you're not trying.
     
  12. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Yes, but I was using a bad performance as an example.
     
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  13. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    In fairness, option 2 is actually the second best option to choose.

    With it, you're not misleading and you're not being uselessly nasty.

    You're not adding anything, but you're not taking away either.
     
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  14. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    If someone asks for feedback then the goal should be to help.

    I think I see 1 quite often, both online and off. I think it can be harmful to development because after five people have said it looks great out of politeness, someone saying there's stuff to work on comes over as the mean one...

    As I said above, 2 - yeah. It's not helpful, but it's not harmful. Who knows how much it happens?

    4 is the only one that offers the possibility of constructive criticism/feedback. Whether that comes with an interpretation or not. In the pattern/form example, you can say "the stances are off", or you can expand and explain how. All that gives you something to work with.

    In comparison, 3 is literally saying "mate, that's awful". How can that be construed as constructive and how can you analyse it?
     
  15. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You stated
    "Let's say I post a video of me doing a pattern, and it's bad.

    You effectively have 4 options:

    1. Lie to be nice and say "that's great"
    2. Say nothing
    3. Tell me it's bad
    4. Tell me it's bad, and why/how"

    That doesn't suggest you were looking for feedback, you just posted a video of yourself. Which is why most people would use 2. I've noticed that when people post a video of themselves, vs. people posting a video and specifically asking "What can I do better" the response is very different. Thinking back, I can't recall any videos that you've posted of yourself looking for feedback, so I can't say how you've presented that, but what the person states they're looking for when posting a video has a lot to do with the amount of critique that's offered.
     
  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Fair enough, I didn't add that extra "looking for feedback" caveat ;)

    I was self restricting the intent to the "what do you think" kind of videos people post here instead of the "look at me" type - for the purposes of the example. I should have been clearer - thanks for the feedback :D

    That said, posting a video is inviting feedback of sorts - and if anyone feels so moved as to comment, they might as well offer comments that are of use.


    And your recollection is correct, I haven't posted videos of myself, of any type. It may happen sometime though and if it does, I welcome any useful feedback...
     
  17. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    lol. and there you have it. Example provided.

    1. I'm not disagreeing with what you say. (Aka what I'm about to say isn't a disagreement to your statement so don't take it that way.)
    2. Based on this comment, you are talking about if someone uses DISAGREE vs NOT DISAGREE.
    3. I was only addressing the phrase NOT DISAGREE
    4. I AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT. just wasn't what I was referring to.
    4. Miscommunication achieved lol
     
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  18. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I clicked agree because I don't not disagree with nothing you didn't say.

    Possibly.
     
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  19. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

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    Some real noggin' scratchers here haha XD

    Unfortunately I use Tapatalk for my forums so I only have the 'Like' option available
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it’s often either context (you say something I consider true but not a counterpoint to what I said, so despite the fact that I don’t disagree, we are still on opposite sides of the issue), or of degrees (I could agree strongly, agree somewhat, be neutral - same as not disagreeing - or disagree).
     

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