discussion of techniques

[James Kovacich]

The picture attached (I'M THE SHORT GUY) is a classic position that I like to be in. In this range I've nearly eliminated the striking range. I'm also in a decent controlling the position. Its easy to move into close range strikes or grappling whether it be on the ground or standing up.

I would like to hear some detailed descriptions of how "our"(our refers to all of us) fight strategys are alike and are differant. Please try to be realistic and descriptive with universal terminology that we all will be able to relate to.

I would also like to hear how differant techinques are perfomed by differant arts. Like how a Karate system defends against a left lead punch. And how a Gung-Fu system would defend against the same attack. And Thai and.....

It would be excellent to hear about many differant systems approach to many differant defenses. Strikes, grappling and everything in between please.

A technique thread without the negativity. Strictly positive and open minded responses please.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by akja
The picture attached is a classic position that I like to be in. In this range I've nearly eliminated the striking range. I'm also in a decent controlling the position. Its easy to move into close range strikes or grappling whether it be on the ground or standing up.[/close]

Not sure what you mean by "nearly eliminated the striking range." The range you're at in the picture is what I consider the outside range of the optimal striking range (with empty hands). And that's also the range where I really start applying trapping and joint locking. I think the optimal fighting range (for me) is actually about 1/2 the distance that you have in that picture.

Mike

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by pesilat

Originally posted by akja
The picture attached is a classic position that I like to be in. In this range I've nearly eliminated the striking range. I'm also in a decent controlling the position. Its easy to move into close range strikes or grappling whether it be on the ground or standing up.[/close]

Not sure what you mean by "nearly eliminated the striking range." The range you're at in the picture is what I consider the outside range of the optimal striking range (with empty hands). And that's also the range where I really start applying trapping and joint locking. I think the optimal fighting range (for me) is actually about 1/2 the distance that you have in that picture.

Mike

Do you mean I'm in too close. That is where I like to be, where it is hard for them to strike me and within my reach. I like to grab or have the option to grab.

 

[DAC..florida]

I agree good position to be in!

My first reaction would be a simple outside wrist take-down by placing your right palm over the back of your oponents left hand forcing his palm to be facing his body then simply putting his thumb on the ground.

Of course their's also the by-latteral testicular compression or front kick to the groin.

This oponent has left themselves wide open to many attacks, be sure to send them a christmas card after kicking thier a##!

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
I agree good position to be in!

My first reaction would be a simple outside wrist take-down by placing your right palm over the back of your oponents left hand forcing his palm to be facing his body then simply putting his thumb on the ground.

Of course their's also the by-latteral testicular compression or front kick to the groin.

This oponent has left themselves wide open to many attacks, be sure to send them a christmas card after kicking thier a##!

My natural response from there would be to direct his arms either to the right or to the left, whichever direction he gives me. Then depending on what I feel, I could trap or take down. But it could be as simple as an elbow to the body and an uppercut.

 

[chufeng]

I'm not sure which one you are supposed to be, but either way you are in my sweet zone...if you get closer...even better for me(not you)...You actually make it easy...I usually have to do something to lure someone in...

So I guess that si both our similarities and our differences...

I would never start at that distance...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by chufeng
I'm not sure which one you are supposed to be, but either way you are in my sweet zone...if you get closer...even better for me(not you)...You actually make it easy...I usually have to do something to lure someone in...

So I guess that si both our similarities and our differences...

I would never start at that distance...

:asian:
chufeng

I'm the short one. I just made that clear in the original post. Thanx for pointing that out. We both have the same sweet zone!

 

[chufeng]

AKJA,

YiLiQuan is totally defensive in nature...
So we always let the other guy commit before waxing him.
When I said "sweet zone" I was referring to a devastating counterattack...in fact in your picture, I would have already launched, either by completely closing the distance and punishing from the inside, or by "getting firmly behind the attack."
For that "behind the attack" technique, I would seem to disappear...but only for a moment...and then remind you where I am...oops.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by akja
Do you mean I'm in too close. That is where I like to be, where it is hard for them to strike me and within my reach. I like to grab or have the option to grab.

Not at all. Like I said, you're at the outside of what I consider my optimal striking range. I personally prefer to be a good deal closer.

Mike

 

[DAC..florida]

I also like the close quarters combat, but I am suprized to see so many others also prefer to be close. I was always taught in TKD to use distance to my advantage, in the past it has proven work but it has also gotten me in trouble I'm 6 ft.2" so I have a long reach, I guess with me I would have to feel out my oponent to see where they are comfortable and try to make them fight me where thier uncomfortable in sence making them fight my fight.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by chufeng
AKJA,

YiLiQuan is totally defensive in nature...
So we always let the other guy commit before waxing him.
When I said "sweet zone" I was referring to a devastating counterattack...in fact in your picture, I would have already launched, either by completely closing the distance and punishing from the inside, or by "getting firmly behind the attack."
For that "behind the attack" technique, I would seem to disappear...but only for a moment...and then remind you where I am...oops.

:asian:
chufeng

How do step? Do you step similar to Kali? How are you going to get around without me following?

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
I also like the close quarters combat, but I am suprized to see so many others also prefer to be close. I was always taught in TKD to use distance to my advantage, in the past it has proven work but it has also gotten me in trouble I'm 6 ft.2" so I have a long reach, I guess with me I would have to feel out my oponent to see where they are comfortable and try to make them fight me where thier uncomfortable in sence making them fight my fight.

That's always what it boils down to.

It's also one of the reasons it pays to be well-rounded.

And why the person who's better with his tools (regardless of what they are or where they come from) that has the advantage.

A good long range fighter can keep people at long range. But a good close range fighter is good at getting through the long range into the close range. So the person who is better with his/her tools will have the advantage in getting into his/her game.

Having a specialty, but also being well-rounded, is the best method IMHO. It gives you the skill to deal with other games while getting into your own game. And it can help you counter other people's attempts to draw you into their game.

And, if you encounter someone who's better at your preferred game than you are, then, hopefully, you can find somewhere that they're not as comfortable.

Mike

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by akja
How do step? Do you step similar to Kali? How are you going to get around without me following?

Sounds more like Silat stepping to me. We get it from Langkah Sliwa (the square). It can be very deceptive. I'm not sure if this is what chufeng is talking about, but it sounds similar from his description.

Mike

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by pesilat
Not at all. Like I said, you're at the outside of what I consider my optimal striking range. I personally prefer to be a good deal closer.

Mike

What a differance a step makes. A bit closer will work for me too. I don't have too many pictures but that one is real close to my world.

I've been working out with a Wing Chun fighter and a JKD fighter and they are helping work in my range again with a new point of view.

 

[chufeng]

Because I let you attack...full out...
...and I don't oppose it...I simply let it slip by...
You see the nervous system is wired to complete a task...
If you tell your arm to punch, it will, until a) it meets resistance, or, b) the action is depleted (completed).

I let you attack and by the time you complete your attack, I am no longer there. You can't track me, because I wait until you FULLY commit to the attack...if you don't fully commit, I just wait for you and tie you up or dispatch you when you arrive.

The key is, I don't block...
I move...

If I do block, it isn't a block at all, it is an attack...and that's another strategy, entirely.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
I also like the close quarters combat, but I am suprized to see so many others also prefer to be close. I was always taught in TKD to use distance to my advantage, in the past it has proven work but it has also gotten me in trouble I'm 6 ft.2" so I have a long reach, I guess with me I would have to feel out my oponent to see where they are comfortable and try to make them fight me where thier uncomfortable in sence making them fight my fight.

With you being tall and me short, that is where I would need to be. I'm surprised though that a tall person likes it close.

I naturally have to move in to accomidate my short arms. I don't rely on any special techniques, its all flow.

I practice techinques and drills, but its the flow which dictates what I use.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by pesilat
That's always what it boils down to.

It's also one of the reasons it pays to be well-rounded.

And why the person who's better with his tools (regardless of what they are or where they come from) that has the advantage.

A good long range fighter can keep people at long range. But a good close range fighter is good at getting through the long range into the close range. So the person who is better with his/her tools will have the advantage in getting into his/her game.

Having a specialty, but also being well-rounded, is the best method IMHO. It gives you the skill to deal with other games while getting into your own game. And it can help you counter other people's attempts to draw you into their game.

And, if you encounter someone who's better at your preferred game than you are, then, hopefully, you can find somewhere that they're not as comfortable.

Mike

You nailed it right there. When I'm in close, I get a chance to feel them out and let them determine for me what I'll do. Not them being in control though. If they step one way then I'll do this or that.

And when feeling them out, I can try and determine which range is their weakest. Theres always somebody who has faster hands or feet or who is a better grappler. So I have to be prepared to be able to go to any range that the fight goes or to take the fight to another range myself.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by chufeng
Because I let you attack...full out...
...and I don't oppose it...I simply let it slip by...
You see the nervous system is wired to complete a task...
If you tell your arm to punch, it will, until a) it meets resistance, or, b) the action is depleted (completed).

I let you attack and by the time you complete your attack, I am no longer there. You can't track me, because I wait until you FULLY commit to the attack...if you don't fully commit, I just wait for you and tie you up or dispatch you when you arrive.

The key is, I don't block...
I move...

If I do block, it isn't a block at all, it is an attack...and that's another strategy, entirely.

:asian:
chufeng

I can see what your saying but I want to actually see it. I've been training with a guy who did White Crane Gung-Fu before JKD and with JKD he learned some form of Silat and Kali. He moves like what you say and I'm interested.

My Jun Fan is a little differant from the Jun Fan that distinctly resembles Bruces movements. The Maciases shortened up the techniques quite abit. By shortening up, I'm talking about hacking away at the essentials or chiseling the technique like you hear in JKD terminology.

What I'm doing is drawing a picture that I'm adding more tools into my toolbox. My footwork is changing slightly, but until I actually try applying it, I can't say yet.

 

[chufeng]

AKJA,

Just to clarify...I allow the attack to occur...I let it develop to the point where the attacker KNOWS he is going to hit me, then I move.

In the instant of realizing that I've moved, the attacker realizes too late that he is fv<ked...(my apologies to the moderators...I simply wanted to make a point).

Hope that clarifies things.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by chufeng
AKJA,

Just to clarify...I allow the attack to occur...I let it develop to the point where the attacker KNOWS he is going to hit me, then I move.

In the instant of realizing that I've moved, the attacker realizes too late that he is fv<ked...(my apologies to the moderators...I simply wanted to make a point).

Hope that clarifies things.

:asian:
chufeng

I hear ya. I really want to check out your art.

To get where I want to be, I don't mind gettin hit. In a fight, I have to expect getting hit. What I have to do is minimze the effects of any hits I take. I think its realistic, for me anyway to expect to get hit. But not be "willing" to get hit. Don't misunderstand that point.