DISCARD Encounter With Danger et. al.

[Fastmover]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka


Does anyone consider this particular clip a good example of Kenpo or is it a bad example? (In my Kenpo school, this would be a bad example).

Where is the Kenpo realism? Has anyone captured on video and posted it onto the web? I'd love to see it.

Sounds like an interesting topic for a new thread.

 

[dcence]

My point about the AKKI Five Swords video is that all the Kenpo technique videos I've found are like this. Attcker throws a poor excuse for an attack, defender slaps him in the chest a few times while attacker stands there like a zombie, then defender covers out into a neutral bow while attacker stands there unhurt or fakes a TKO/KO.

Does anyone consider this particular clip a good example of Kenpo or is it a bad example? (In my Kenpo school, this would be a bad example).

You need to understand the purpose of those clips. There are two versions of 5 swords both with different timing patterns. It was not a real fight. It was not meant to inflict pain. I know the individuals in those clips and they can inflict pain and harm if they want. Both examples were executed with speed , articulation and control. Control being the operative word. Obviously the guy stands there very still so as not to get hit. The idea of the clips is to show how you can use two completely different timing patterns for one single technique.

What do you want them to do -- try and dodge the strikes? When that happens the dummy usually gets clocked by the next strike because they move into it.

All Kenpo techniques require the opponent to stand there like a wooden dummy while the other guy goes to town. This is the way it has been done time in memoriam.

However, in the AKKI our Brown Belt techniques are composed of ones where the guy actually blocks a few of your strikes and becomes very active in the process. The AKKI curriculum is the only one I know that has specific required techniques where the opponent actually tries to thwart your technique and you are required to counter his counter, so to speak, though there may be others I don't know about.

It is not just good Kenpo, I think it is great Kenpo if you understand the purpose of the clips, but certainly it is not realistic for someone just to stand there and take a bunch of shots, but then again, the guy doing the technique would not be pulling the shots either if it were a real fight.

Derek

 

[dcence]

See, this is what I'm talking about. Here we have 2 excellent examples of techs. on the ground given by OFK and dcence! By giving examples we can look further at how you can apply the techs. on the ground!

My Tripping Arrow example was an attempt to show people what Kenpo Yahoo was asking for. The fact remains though that EPAK is slim on the ground fighting whether you acknowledge it or not and you have to look deep to find things that will work on the ground. You can find some things, but it is not readily evident as reflected by people unable to answer the simple question of -- give me an example. Even if you do find them, as in my example, unless you practice them a lot, you won't be able to do them at crunch time. And you won't practice them unless they are a specific part of a required curriculum. So, the EPAK system is a poor system to teach you ground fighting in my opinion.

Derek

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

However, in the AKKI our Brown Belt techniques are composed of ones where the guy actually blocks a few of your strikes and becomes very active in the process. The AKKI curriculum is the only one I know that has specific required techniques where the opponent actually tries to thwart your technique and you are required to counter his counter, so to speak, though there may be others I don't know about.

This is great! I would love to see some video clips. Where can I find clips of stuff like this?

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
This is great! I would love to see some video clips. Where can I find clips of stuff like this?

OFK- If you go onto the AKKI website, you'll find more there!

Mike

 

[MJS]

Reagrding people standing there and not moving while the other person delievers multiple strikes. This is just my observation so I'm open for feedback. I believe the idea here is to hit the attacker and continue hitting him so that he does not have a chance to think about countering or hitting you back. An example- If you were attempting to do a tech. against a wrist grab. Prior to beginning the tech. you kick to the knee, and then continue the movement. By doing this, it momentarily takes your opps. attention from the wrist to the pain in his knee.

The idea of the tech. in question, 5 swords, is to immediately strike to the neck after blocking the punch, therefore taking his attention away from the punch. Of course, like dcence mentioned, you do want to be prepared for the 'what ifs' in the event the opp. does counter your moves.

Just a thought.

Mike

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Mike: Thanks. I have looked at all the videos on the AKKI site in the past (and again today) and they are all pretty similar.

Rolling Thunder is a pretty cool mount defense. I'd love to seed more Kenpoists embrace this technique.

Five Swords (Glancing Blades in the spin-off system I studied) is one of my favorite Kenpo techniques. I used to do it in technique demonstration competition and change the ending to add a lot more hand strikes. I am just surprised that an organization of the caliber of the AKKI would post these videos. The attack isn't worth defending against, it doesn't seem that the strikes are aimed at the proper targets, I don't see contact. The attacker isn't doing much acting to make his partner look good.

Beyond that, I'd love to see a video of this (or any other Kenpo technique) done against a resisting partner who tries to execute a follow-up strike or move out of position or fight back.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Beyond that, I'd love to see a video of this (or any other Kenpo technique) done against a resisting partner who tries to execute a follow-up strike or move out of position or fight back.

Feel free to make your own videos and put them out for everyone to critique.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Huh, that's weird. Last night, I was going over the extension to Triggered Salute with one of my 13-year-old wunderkinder, and I kept trying to punch him with the left after shoving with the right...and then jumped into advanced class, where among other things we worked the extension to Sleeper with the dummy attempting to reach in and yank the hands of his/her neck...then we worked something Cliff Seminerio came up with, a "trio," in which one is forced from Thrusting Prongs to Crashing Wings to Tripping Arrow, as the dummy repeatedly ducks and regrabs...

But no. I for one never work techs against a resisting opponent.

 

[dcence]

Huh, that's weird. Last night, I was going over the extension to Triggered Salute with one of my 13-year-old wunderkinder, and I kept trying to punch him with the left after shoving with the right...and then jumped into advanced class, where among other things we worked the extension to Sleeper with the dummy attempting to reach in and yank the hands of his/her neck...then we worked something Cliff Seminerio came up with, a "trio," in which one is forced from Thrusting Prongs to Crashing Wings to Tripping Arrow, as the dummy repeatedly ducks and regrabs...

That's not weird. That is exactly what you should be doing in my opinion at some level. Those type of things make the technique much more lively.

Derek

 

[rmcrobertson]

Uh, actually my point was that it's not weird or extra or unusual at all. I see I explained myself badly; thanks.