Differentiating Double Kicks

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by skribs, May 19, 2020.

  1. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    What term would you use to concisely describe each of the following double roundhouse kicks:

    1. Right leg kick, right leg lands, right leg kicks again

    2. Right leg kick, rechamber (without landing), right leg kicks again

    3. Right leg kick, right leg lands, left leg kicks

    4. Right leg kick, jumping kick with left leg
    I'm trying to figure out which word or phrase to describe each of these four combinations. What would you call each of these concpets?
     
  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    1. Same direction continuous attack.
    2. Use a fake attack to set up a real attack.
    3. Attack in one direction, then attack the other direction.
    4. Use jump to cover distance, and followed with a kick.
     
  3. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Thanks, but I'm looking for one word answers.
     
  4. Yokozuna514

    Yokozuna514 Brown Belt

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    1. Double roundhouse kick, same leg.
    2. Double roundhouse kick, same leg with feint.
    3. Double roundhouse kick, alternating leg.
    4. Double roundhouse kick, alternating leg with jump.
     
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  5. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I do not think there are singular terms to adequately describe your list. You could probably mash up a few words and come up with your own unique term.
    To clarify, are you starting right leg back and stepping Forward with the right leg after the first kick? There are a lot of variations.
    1.) Right leg reverse roundhouse followed by right leg lead roundhouse.
    2.) Double roundhouse
    3.) Walking roundhouse, alternating legs.
    4.) Your description adequately describes the kick. In class I may shorten it to something like "right leg round, left leg jump. But there will be some confusion in the beginning since there are several variables to that. After the 2nd or 3rd kick (warmups) everyone should be on the same page. Granted not at the same proficiency. Then start the count.
    A visual example is the best instruction most of the time. If we have similar skill levels grouped together we will often show an example and never say a word. Just start the count. Very good for skill comprehension.
     
  6. Jaeimseu

    Jaeimseu 2nd Black Belt

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    I use double kick and repeat kick. Double when it’s one leg and then the other, and repeat when the same leg does more than one kick before touching the ground.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. paitingman

    paitingman Purple Belt

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    1. Double Up RH
    2. Double Pump
    3. RH-RH
    4. Double RH

    These are quick terms I use during drills
     
  8. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    "If you want to command the troops you need precise terminology " General Choi.

    There is nothing magical about terminology. The troops need to understand the meaning. If you are part of a larger group / org. it helps if everyone is using the same terminology.

    Ours would be as follows.

    1. "Two Right Leg Kicks."
    2. "Double Kick"
    3. "Combination Kick"
    4. "Combination Kick"
    Note we have a different terms for different jumps which is an extrapolation of General Choi's terminology as is the terminology above. For instance using different legs is "Combination" and same leg different kicks without putting the foot down is "Consecutive" but his text really only used this for when you were jumping. We figured if it was good enough for jumping kicks we could use if for non jumping.
     
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  9. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    There are also terms like "Spot" & advancing. If you were to be instructed to "Spot Kicking" with the rear foot, then it would return to where it started. Advancing would mean the rear foot would step to the front and the next set would start with the other foot.

    Example might be "Step back with your right foot, Spot consecutive kick Font Snap Kick, Side Piercing Kick" As opposed to "Step back with the right foot, Advancing consecutive kick, front nap kick, side Piercing kick, "

    Note that "Middle" is a default level. Depending on the scenario you my need to specify levels. "Right Leg Back Advancing Triple Side Turning Kick, Low, Middle, High. " or "Right leg Back advancing consecutive Kick Low front Snap kick, High Side Turning Kick." .
     
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  10. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    These are all good descriptors.

    @skribs , what is your motivation for a one word descriptor? Your list of kicks is all multiples or combinations. Add the plethora of variety off a roundhouse kick (any kick) and confusion can ensue without a detailed description. Are you building a progression from belt to belt?
    When teaching the kick in combination do you break down each kick first? This helps in understanding how to marry the two kicks together.
    I/we try to use the universal terms like reverse, lead, step, walk, etc...
    I also think learning terminology requires consistency in terms. So if you say 'throw a roundhouse kick' does that adequately describe the kick you intend? Probably not.

    A word of caution: I mentioned 'mashing up' your own term. While that would work within a specific school it would not work anywhere else. Could prove to be a dis-service to the student.
     
  11. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I want to get as accurate as I can with as few words as I can, so that I can efficiently communicate drills. The way I see it, the less time it takes for the class to understand the drill, the more time you have to actually drill.

    At my school, #1-3 in the OP would all be described as "roundhouse kick, roundhouse kick", which sometimes leads to confusion. Yes, there are a lot of different ways to describe kicks, and a lot of variables at play. The more I can reduce those variables, the more efficiently I can explain something. I have to agree with what @Earl Weiss said regarding general Choi - precise terminology is key.

    In addition to martial arts, I also love gaming. Board games usually have "keywords" which will always mean something precise. For example, even though "Attack" and "Damage" might seem similar, in many games "Attack" is the chance to hit, and "Damage" is the amount of damage you deal when you hit.

    [​IMG]

    Take this card from the popular card game, Dominion. What happens when you play this card is you draw a card, you increase your action pool by one action, you increase your buy pool by one item, and you gain 2 coins that can be used as money. But what took me a very long compound sentence to write, the game does in 3 words and a symbol. It does this because "+1 Buy" always means the same thing, no matter what card it is on. These are all keywords (even the icon) which let you quickly determine what the card does, and lets the game maker use a bigger font so it's easier to read.

    What I want is the ability to quickly communicate common combinations. And 3 of those 4 are going to be pretty common.

    The school I'm at already has a different vocabulary from most schools. While I understand the concern, it's the least of my concerns. If a new student comes to my school, I'll understand that they probably learned things different at their schools. And if one of my students goes to another school, the skills are the most important thing I want them to bring with them. If they have a great roundhouse kick, but they're treated badly because they call it a "roundhouse kick" and not a "turning kick", then I would expect they would find a new school that aren't a bunch of blowhards.
     
  12. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    We refer to 1 and 2 as doubles and 3 and 4 as combos and not landing punches or kicks as being short.

    We would refer to them as (note my son fights southpaw so his right leg is his front leg)
    1 - double front round house kick
    2 - double front round house kick 1st kick short
    3 - front round house rear roundhouse combo
    4 - front round house jumping rear roundhouse combo
     
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  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The name is not important. The principle is important. From 1 principle, you can map into many techniques.

    1. Same direction continuous attack.

    - right side kick, right side kick.
    - right roundhouse kick, right roundhouse kick kick.
    - right leg spring, right leg spring.
    - right leg block, right leg block.
    - ...
     
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  14. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    The name is important if I want to communicate efficiently.
     
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you use a kick to set up a punch, do you also want to get "short" names for:

    - groin kick, face punch.
    - chest kick, hook punch.
    - side kick, spin back fist.
    - side kick, neck chop.
    - ... ?

    After you have single technique name, you don't need name for combo (such as right roundhouse kick, right roundhouse kick). A combo name can be as simple as

    - 1st technique name, 2nd technique name.

    This is how the combo is named in Chinese wrestling.

    - knee seize, inner hook.
    - leg twist, leg lift.
    - leg seize, twist and spring.
    - reverse shin bite, leg sweep.
    - double inner hooks.
    - ...

    If you use the same technique twice, it's called

    - double roundhouse kicks.
    - double inner hooks.
    - double hook punches.
    - double jabs.
    - ...
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
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  16. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Thing is, whatever term I use isn't limited to roundhouse kicks. For example, let's just use the numbers. It could be:
    • #1 style double roundhouse kick
    • #1 style roundhouse kick, side kick
    • #1 style roundhouse kick, spin hook kick
    • #2 style roundhouse kick twice
    • #2 style hook kick, roundhouse kick
    It gives a more efficient method of describing the footwork than to just describe it.

    Same thing for how I'd describe movement before a kick.
    • Step and kick
    • Slide and kick
    • Skip and kick
    • Pop jumping kick
    • Bicycle jumping kick
    • Drag kick
    • Switch and kick
    All mean different things, and I can use 2 words to explain it. Instead of "right leg step forward, left leg kick" or "right leg up, left leg jump and kick".
     
  17. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    What do you name the following:

    You have right leg forward. You step your left back foot

    1. pass in front of your right foot, land in front of your right foot,
    2. touch your right foot, land next to your right foot,
    3. pass behind of your right foot,

    and then do a right side kick.
     
  18. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    When I started we learned the Korean Terms and later abandoned them in favor of English terms. I found still later that the English terms did not always conform to the terms in the text. As I became more involved on a national scale, and later international scale I conformed my terms to the text. Primarily to avoid confusion by students if they traveled and also tried to look up stuff in the text which was indexed in English. Still later encountering students from other countries I found they did not know the English terms, only the Korean terms so I had to brush up on my use of those. Helped a lot . So long as those students did not learn the terms in French, Spanish, Russian... and some had. So, then it becomes "Like This".
     
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  19. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    For single kicks I most often used Korean terminology. I never got very good at the multi kick terms.
    Much like English, the Korean language has similar or multiple terms with the same meaning. There are a lot of 'close to' or 'close enough' words.
    I was taught it originated from hierarchy. People with means and education had one way of speaking and the poorer adopted their own language.
     
  20. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    It has to be progressive does it not? Teaching the kick to a new person would require the very detailed description for the sake of understanding. So it is a matter of exposure and experience I think. Your first list I really do not understand what you mean but it apparently it makes sense to you, thus our exposure has been different. The second list is an understandable list, albeit not a full explanation of what to do. If, for example the drill was prefaced with "all kicks will start right leg forward roundhouse kick" that is a more accurate descriptor.

    What is a drag kick in your terminology?123
     

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