Defense Against The Bearhug

[green meanie]

Yeah, damn those poor fragile women, all too silly and helpless to protect themselves... locked in the kicthen barefoot and pregnant they should be... outside is full of big scary men who they cant stop...

:rofl:

 

[BlackSheep]

Hey MJS

Did you read my first post?

The video of the switch is on the ground but, watch how the bottom wrestler uses his arm trapping the top wrestlers arm and with his hand hooked behind the top guy’s knee. The foot work is called a hip heist, for doing the switch standing, the foot work is different but the use of the arm and hand is the same. I think doing it standing is easier but you have less time so you must be fast.

 

[MJS]

Hey MJS

Did you read my first post?

The video of the switch is on the ground but, watch how the bottom wrestler uses his arm trapping the top wrestlers arm and with his hand hooked behind the top guy’s knee. The foot work is called a hip heist, for doing the switch standing, the foot work is different but the use of the arm and hand is the same. I think doing it standing is easier but you have less time so you must be fast.

Yes, I just went back and look at them a bit closer. Thanks for posting them!!

Again, I can't stress enough, the importance of having some grappling incorporated into ones training. Having an understanding of this, will, IMO, certainly aid in a defense.

Mike

 

[Ross]

Hi guys,

Great thread, although some of you guys do need a reality check with some of your suggestions. The spitting one, was that posted on the April Fools Day or something?

Ok, a couple of things you need to consider.
a) as a rule, the person attacking you is going to be bigger than you,
b) no attack is static - when you are attacked from the front or rear with a bear hug there will be significant forward or rear momentum. You must absorbe and resist this first before even attempting to escape.

There as several ways that you survive the initial assult (some people will know what I mean), but if we take an isolated movement that you can all try from a static grap with the intention to lift.

Using a partner attacking with a rear bear hug -

The attack
Attacker grabs with both feet slightly outside those of the practioner, knees bent. Overarm grab, pinning the arms to the sides a little lower than chest level. Try to lift.

(At this point they should lift the student with ease)

Student
Bring your left hand up and across your body to your right shoulder - lifting the attackers left elbow so that their left elbow is higher than their right elbow.

Attacker
Now try and lift.

If done correctly they will not be able to lift you - when they readjust their hold/grab student strikes.

Have fun

 

[green meanie]

Hi guys,

Great thread, although some of you guys do need a reality check with some of your suggestions. The spitting one, was that posted on the April Fools Day or something?

Spitting? Where was that? I must've missed it.

 

[Brad Dunne]

b) no attack is static - when you are attacked from the front or rear with a bear hug there will be significant forward or rear momentum. You must absorbe and resist this first before even attempting to escape.

This is my positioning. When you are grabbed and picked up and slammed, all within a seconds time frame........how in the world are you going to have enough time to absorbe and resist? You state that no attack is static, which I agree with, but then you go on to go into specifics on a particular counter, which will take additional time to develope, of which there is none (time that is), so it seems somewhat contradictory. For some unexplained reasoning, most folks here either can't fathom the time element involved or just like to pull chains for the heck of it. It make no difference how many years of training someone may have, there are things that can't be defended against and this one particular attack happens to be one of them if the attacker is bent on serious harm to you.

To answer the question: Brad, you're speaking in absolutes. A physical confrontation is anything but. Your opinion is also opposite to mine and several others here based on our experiance. How do you explain that?

Your the only ones with experience? Yes I am speaking in an absolute on nothing more than this one particular attack, but in conjunction with this is the overall training against all the variables against a bearhug. A physical confrontation is not static, as stated above, but yet almost all of the defenses offered need to be in at least a semi static position to afford time to attempt a defense..........so to me that construes a contradiction. We can bang heads all day long on this issue. You and company have your positioning and I like wise have mine. I wish you all well with your training and earnestly hope that none of you ever encounter this attack on the street.

Respectfully :asian:

 

[still learning]

Hello, This a really a tuff one here folks. Will you be able to defend against a bearhug?

I guess it depends, it seem, because many of you believe you can and some don't think you will have the time if lifted and slam right away.

So the question becomes? Is it possible to defend against the bearhug if someone grabs you, and quickly starts to lift you?

Some of us will agree" it is possible"....reaction time will always vary person to person....can we dodge a baseball thrown at us by a pitcher...sometimes...other times you will get to walk....

Alot of things is life is possible...people have survive amazing things that happen to them. Which we agree before would be impossible...right!

...I believe it is possilbe...that is why we practice all our techniques.. it is possible to defend against most attacks...off course..it depends...Aloha

 

[James Kovacich]

Still Learnings post is good. Being grabbed is one of those situations that way to many people think they are prepared for or entirely ignore to train in this position in a realistic fashion.

Whatever combo# you try, it's probably to late. But I'm not saying the bearhug is the end-all either.

The answer is training in ranges and positions that may not be a part of our primary style. I start my students in the clinch for a lot of drills because that is where the fight is and we need to be able to stop the opponent before doing the damage.

It's nice to think "I'll do this or I'll do that" but before you can do "this or that" you need to know that you won't be on your back.

 

[RoninPimp]

b) no attack is static - when you are attacked from the front or rear with a bear hug there will be significant forward or rear momentum. You must absorbe and resist this first before even attempting to escape.

This is my positioning. When you are grabbed and picked up and slammed, all within a seconds time frame........how in the world are you going to have enough time to absorbe and resist? You state that no attack is static, which I agree with, but then you go on to go into specifics on a particular counter, which will take additional time to develope, of which there is none (time that is), so it seems somewhat contradictory. For some unexplained reasoning, most folks here either can't fathom the time element involved or just like to pull chains for the heck of it. It make no difference how many years of training someone may have, there are things that can't be defended against and this one particular attack happens to be one of them if the attacker is bent on serious harm to you.

To answer the question: Brad, you're speaking in absolutes. A physical confrontation is anything but. Your opinion is also opposite to mine and several others here based on our experiance. How do you explain that?

Your the only ones with experience? Yes I am speaking in an absolute on nothing more than this one particular attack, but in conjunction with this is the overall training against all the variables against a bearhug. A physical confrontation is not static, as stated above, but yet almost all of the defenses offered need to be in at least a semi static position to afford time to attempt a defense..........so to me that construes a contradiction. We can bang heads all day long on this issue. You and company have your positioning and I like wise have mine. I wish you all well with your training and earnestly hope that none of you ever encounter this attack on the street.

Respectfully :asian:

-The defenses I know and train from the bear hug don't require "a semi static position". I agree that if you get blindsided you might not have a chance though.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Try watching Judo,(my son does is on the High School Judo team). Everything is about throws. They have alot of different ones. Each one can be defend against at. .. Yet people get thrown all the time. They have a form of bearhug...and the attacker can be thrown down quickly too!

It is possible to defend...it depends......Aloha

"Depends" (is the recommended under pants for those who need them)..see your nearest grocery store.

 

[Adept]

I'm a pretty big guy, at 5'10" and 218 pounds. I have a friend who is 6'3" and 360 pounds, and it's not all fat. I mean, sure, he's a fat guy, but he's also strong as hell.

He can pick me up in a bearhug with my arms trapped by my sides, and drop me on the floor in less than a second. I can't do much to get out of this bearhug but wriggle like crazy. His massive size keeps me far enough away from his face and legs to prevent effective kicking or headbutting, my arms are pinned, and well, thats pretty much all my weapons gone.

But, he can't do much to me while he has me.

The bearhug I worry about is the one that is quickly followed by the hugger's comrade smashing a beer bottle into the huggee's face.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Knee and strike towards the groin with arms pinned if you can grab the guys stuff then grab it and squeeze hard they will let go. There are tons of options from bear hugs. I wish I had all the options I teach on video. What about side bearhugs? Anyone teach defenses or have defenses from those other than me?

 

[still learning]

Hello, My son just came home from his High School Judo practice. We had a discussion about bearhugs. Because they are already training and aware that once a person grabs you from behind (bearhug) they automatic do several things, it depends on what they feel is happenig.

Sprawl you leg forward,not to be lifted, turn your body and throw them, reach with one arm under the attacker leg, and so on. (They do not do body strikes). Keep in mind this is during practice and they must beware of all attacks. Now once an while if you are caught off guard...down you go.

For someone who is not expecting a bearhug....the sitution could be different. Each one of us, may be caught off guard. False crack..most times are successful.

Lots of comments here.....great talking to all of you....good nite and Aloha

PS:My son when his was in Elementary school his friend bearhug him...his reaction right away...head butt backwards...didn't know it was a friend.
The boy's head hurt for a while...never did this again too.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Tahts a good point about being caught off guard. Everyone at one point or another is off guard whether something serious is on their mind, they are tired or something else is botehring them. We as martial artists are taught always be aware but that is not always the case.

 

[Hand Sword]

How true! As always, stay calm, go with the flow, and do what ever is necessary.

 

[thescottishdude]

if your lookign from a grappling perspective you would want to wrestle. but with arts like karate and kung fu that are quite light on wrestling you'd want to break out and fght with fists and feet.

 

[James Kovacich]

But, he can't do much to me while he has me.

.

If he has you from the rear (arms do not need to be trapped), he places his left foot alongside your left heel. He steps to the right with his right (slightly, just enough) foot while simultaneaously pulling you backward to the ground, while rotating his body to the left. he will fall on top of you everytime.

It sounds like a lot but it's the simplest takedown.

From the front or side the rear is attainable. There are plenty of takedowns but the one I described is a clean takedown.

 

[green meanie]

If he has you from the rear (arms do not need to be trapped), he places his left foot alongside your left heel. He steps to the right with his right (slightly, just enough) foot while simultaneaously pulling you backward to the ground, while rotating his body to the left. he will fall on top of you everytime.

It sounds like a lot but it's the simplest takedown.

From the front or side the rear is attainable. There are plenty of takedowns but the one I described is a clean takedown.

In wrestling we call that a back heel trip and yes, its simple and its clean.
However, unless the arms are trapped it's relatively easy to counter with a short / inside switch.

 

[MJS]

b) no attack is static - when you are attacked from the front or rear with a bear hug there will be significant forward or rear momentum. You must absorbe and resist this first before even attempting to escape.

This is my positioning. When you are grabbed and picked up and slammed, all within a seconds time frame........how in the world are you going to have enough time to absorbe and resist? You state that no attack is static, which I agree with, but then you go on to go into specifics on a particular counter, which will take additional time to develope, of which there is none (time that is), so it seems somewhat contradictory. For some unexplained reasoning, most folks here either can't fathom the time element involved or just like to pull chains for the heck of it. It make no difference how many years of training someone may have, there are things that can't be defended against and this one particular attack happens to be one of them if the attacker is bent on serious harm to you.

To answer the question: Brad, you're speaking in absolutes. A physical confrontation is anything but. Your opinion is also opposite to mine and several others here based on our experiance. How do you explain that?

Your the only ones with experience? Yes I am speaking in an absolute on nothing more than this one particular attack, but in conjunction with this is the overall training against all the variables against a bearhug. A physical confrontation is not static, as stated above, but yet almost all of the defenses offered need to be in at least a semi static position to afford time to attempt a defense..........so to me that construes a contradiction. We can bang heads all day long on this issue. You and company have your positioning and I like wise have mine. I wish you all well with your training and earnestly hope that none of you ever encounter this attack on the street.

Respectfully :asian:

Brad,

We're all certainly entitled to our opinions. I would like to comment on a few things. As I said before, it seems to me, that you're basing judgement on the success of this defense only on what you have seen. Please keep in mind, that just because you have not had success with this defense, does not mean that there are others out there who have successfully defended against this attack.

I'd like to ask you this...why do we bother to train at all? I mean, if we stop and think about it, the same reasoning you're using for the bearhug, can be said of pretty much any attack and defense on our part. I could train until I'm blue in the face against a double leg takedown, but going up against someone like Randy Couture, chances are, I'd end up on the ground pretty fast. Does this mean that I should give up training against that type of attack? Of course not, for the simple reason that everyone we may face, is not going to be a trained fighter. Yes, we should always gear our training to be the best we can be, but again, if faced with a knife, the person may not be a Filipino Master. Everyone throwing a punch is not going to be Mike Tyson Jr. In the bearhug scenario, we're 'assuming' that the person is going to be bigger, stronger and capable of lifting and throwing us. This may not always be the case.

As for the defenses listed...we need to keep in mind, that like any technique in the system we study, they should not be something set in stone, something that we have to do step by step. Instead, we should be using these techniques as a foundation to provide us with ideas and ultimately, something that we use to come up with a reaction to the situation being presented to us at that given time.

I wish you the best in your training.

Mike

 

[Ross]

Brad,

We're all certainly entitled to our opinions. I would like to comment on a few things. As I said before, it seems to me, that you're basing judgement on the success of this defense only on what you have seen. Please keep in mind, that just because you have not had success with this defense, does not mean that there are others out there who have successfully defended against this attack.

I'd like to ask you this...why do we bother to train at all? I mean, if we stop and think about it, the same reasoning you're using for the bearhug, can be said of pretty much any attack and defense on our part. I could train until I'm blue in the face against a double leg takedown, but going up against someone like Randy Couture, chances are, I'd end up on the ground pretty fast. Does this mean that I should give up training against that type of attack? Of course not, for the simple reason that everyone we may face, is not going to be a trained fighter. Yes, we should always gear our training to be the best we can be, but again, if faced with a knife, the person may not be a Filipino Master. Everyone throwing a punch is not going to be Mike Tyson Jr. In the bearhug scenario, we're 'assuming' that the person is going to be bigger, stronger and capable of lifting and throwing us. This may not always be the case.

As for the defenses listed...we need to keep in mind, that like any technique in the system we study, they should not be something set in stone, something that we have to do step by step. Instead, we should be using these techniques as a foundation to provide us with ideas and ultimately, something that we use to come up with a reaction to the situation being presented to us at that given time.

I wish you the best in your training.

Mike

Mike you said exactly what I was thinking.

Brad, I saw that you train in TKD which, as far as I am aware, does not have much training in these types of attack. This is not an attack on you or your art - and if it comes across like that please - I do not mean it to!

There are ways to resist the attack, and I totally agree that there will be occasions when you will taken completely off guard. However, there are instances where you can have both arms pinned and attacked from the front or rear with momentum and to survive the initial assult. If you cannot see some ways within your own system that would work effectively (and I mean realistically as well), look around and see what works for other people.

We never get to rest on our laurels do we!

It is possible to make yourself impossible to pick up through specific movements, stances and body alignment (and attacker misalignment). However, as you correctly mentioned, these need to be taught, practised and practised again. Believe me I train with a lot of big guys, truckers, bikers, doormen. If it's going to work with them, it's going to work against them it's going to work.

But then that's what we're all here for.

Regards Sir,

Ross