Defang or Decapitate?

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts - General' started by geezer, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    As with most things...it depends. If I'm playing at range, defanging may be more available. As range closes, I'm more likely to go for the head (and use my free arm, or other stick, to defend). I think I tend to get overly focused on their stick, so I'm probably more likely to go for defanging, overall.
     
  2. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Absolutely. Range is of high importance for tactical applications.
     
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  3. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    There's an important distinction that can be made between "defanging" and "disarming". "Defanging" can simply refer to targeting the hand or arm whereas "disarming" often includes some complex and risky techniques to force your opponent to release his weapon.

    Hitting the hand can cause an opponent to drop his weapon, or not. Or it can just reduce his dexterity and effectiveness with his weapon. Or it can knock his weapon aside and create an opening. Whatever. ....But very useful.

    On the other hand (pardon the pun!) ...most disarming techniques, those intended specifically to remove an opponent's weapon, are risky, and will have a lower percentage of success in a full-on fighting situation. Sometimes they just kinda fall into place, but IMO that's the exception. If you watch a lot of contact stick fighting videos, this seems to the case for most people. When going all out, more people slip and drop their own stick than get disarmed by conscious intent.

    So, I mainly train disarms because they are fun, look cool and are an entertaining technical challenge. And there are a couple that do seem to pop up and sorta "fall into place" when playing in the studio. Heres one:

     
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  4. Christopher Adamchek

    Christopher Adamchek Blue Belt

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    defang
     
  5. Ivan

    Ivan Green Belt

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    The hand is much easier and faster to move than the head. Therefore, it is much easier for you to use your hand to hit their head, than your hand to hit their hand. So in sparring, I always go for the head. This is only for weaponless sparring though. I have never done sparring with weapons, sadly.
     
  6. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Ivan, with a weapon, often the same slashing stroke can target both the hand and the head. One stroke can hit both targets.

    A weapon with some length, like a 24-30 inch long stick can cover a lot more area, generating a lot more speed and power than a similar movement using the hand alone. So imagine, for example, swinging a stick in a simple, overhand figure-8 pattern with the center-point or "X" in the middle of the figure-8 focused on your opponent's center. That single movement threatens his head and chest and the hands.
     
  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    In many Chinese weapon such as Miao Diao, double edge sword, staff, ..., it all have technique that attack opponent's weapon holding arm.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah but they are further away and so have to give up position to get in range to strike.

     
  9. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Correction: One stroke has the potential of striking either target. A "two-fer" (hitting both) would be pure luck, at least for me!

    At the very least, if distance and timing is good, you do menace both targets, and that in itself is useful.
     
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  10. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Nice GIF. This attack is equally found in FMA and HEMA. Even if black doesn't "defang" blue or seriously damage blue's hands, he has gained superior position and control of blue's weapon. Look how black is set up for the next move. Perhaps an upward slash to blue's throat ...and "game over!"
     
  11. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Defang until/unless you have a chance to go in and decapitate.

    (or striking eyes/temple/back of head/neck depending on what's available or the weapon you are using.)
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When I was 11, my brother in law taught me a staff form "劈手竿(Pi Shou Gan) - hand striking staff". The main technique is to slide my staff along my opponent's staff and hit my opponent's hand. Every day I used my staff to "slide" along a small tree trunk.

    Some CMA weapon are very civilized. The 1st move of our dagger form is to use the dagger handle to strike on opponent's chest to give him a warning (don't mess with me. I have a dagger).

    To cut your opponent's hand, or hit him instead of kill him can be very civilized solution.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  13. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I really like what I've seen of Burton Richardson's material. He seems to have a good handle on how to make techniques functional.
     
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  14. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    I'm thinking about this question and reading all of your responses above and trying to figure out what it is that "I'd do." Since I don't train weapons, having made the informed decision about myself & my luck with these kinds of things a long, long time ago that the one time in my life when I'd Really, really need the sword/stick/knife/whatever thing it was... I'd have put it down on the other side of the couch as the bad guy burst into the room (Oops)... I've only got my hands, feet & head and the stuff between them to use.

    So... that being said... As stated above, what comes in range is what I deal with, and I don't try to force things.... if the guy has a weapon, then of course I move away from the weapon, the weapon side, if at all possible which does two things, increases his distance he's got to cover to apply the weapon on me... and gives me more time to deal with it as he's forced to move to counter it. Otherwise, I end up behind him and his weapon is made moot.

    As for the tricky disarms, I know a few of them and I agree that they are a bit too ...tricky. They do fall into place sometimes out of nowhere almost, while training... which I think is a bit misleading as nobody is Really training full-tilt boogie trying to kill you in the school, so I think it's a false positive result.

    But... the basic, simple stuff where you're attacking the attacking limb, as long as you don't manage to slice up your own bod dealing with it if there's a blade...that stuff could be considered de-fanging, I think. That's where I almost always begin... sort of "tearing off the arms and legs to get to the head" sort of concept. If the guy swings/stabs at you and you manage to let him have his arm back with a broken bone in it... that limb, at least, is effectively de-fanged... even a significant enough bruising strike could get you to much the same place.

    The above being where I start, operating with whatevver limb it is that they "give me" that I can "get at," I do still find myself frequently behind the guy for a moment... at which point if they were really intending badness on me I'd go for the decapitation option, figuratively speaking, if workable. Drop them backwards on their head, there's quite a few throwing techniques which do that, dropping them back on your knee, blowing out some ribs or even the spine, neck breaks... available if in the right position. I'd consider those decapitation moves. Not saying they're easy, or won't get you in legal trouble, just saying they might be there. And... if they Are there and you Are in a situation where you need that level of force to stop the situation, you go that way and do it.
     
  15. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't do much stick work, my wife does. But I do a fairly good amount of work with a knife

    I will always defang if the opportunity presents itself. I've found that it almost always does.
     
  16. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    ;):rolleyes:
     
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  17. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Laughed my butt off!

    I'm not very good with Arnis or Escrima, despite being taught by Remy Presas himself. It was only four days, but it was four days all day long. Wasn't even a seminar, he was working with one of my Instructors and I got a call to "get your butt over here right now." So I did.

    Showed everything he taught us to my wife, who for some reason, just took to it. Within a year, she was way better than I was.

    Remy had an assistant, his last name was Hoffman. Even now, a zillion years later, if I ever run into him I am going to take his stick and make him into a popsicle.

    I can't defang with a stick or bare handed at all. God, I suck at it. But with a knife I feel I can defang anyone, even if I'm getting smashed in the process.
     
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  18. Ivan

    Ivan Green Belt

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    Perhaps, but there are little striking techniques that target the hands of an opponent, rmphasis on striking not locks, grapples etc. The only striking technique I can think of for targeting an opponent’s hand is striking the top of their hand with your knuckle caps hard enough to fracture some of their tinier bones there.
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Gunting. But I think that is because the tool used is pretty inefficient. Where a stick or a knife is a lot better at striking limbs and does more damage.123
     
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