Question about gunting

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts - General' started by Rat, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    Right, i cant remember what you call the position i am going to try and explain or what you call the situation i am about to explain so i cant title this accurately. At least i hope the current title sums it up well.

    But i was watching a "Kali center" video a while ago where he got into how they deal with either the clinch or the range just before it or a guard and he said something along the lines of just going for the hand.

    Now he didnt cover it for unarmed in that video.

    so after that really convoluted starter. how well does gunting stack up for unarmed? Best i can determine it seems like it would work decently on a battlefield and as a means to keep it in your muscle memory to go for the arms and hands etc with weapon if you have one.

    I know adrenaline probably leaves it as not that useful unless you are going to have a extended fight with someone and obviously FMA is meant to be a "get a weapon first" style for the most part.

    I presume FMA unarmed just looks like kickboxing for the most part like plenty of other styles tend to look like? Maybe a little more hesitant to take a hit for a hit maybe.

    Edit: i suppose a ultimate question to this is: how do you "defang the snake" when you have no weapons.
     
  2. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    So first: FMA unarmed from my experience does not look like kickboxing. And most styles don't look like kickboxing...if you know what you're looking at. That takes actually training to see though. If you look at @JowGaWolf 's videos you can see this.

    Now regarding defanging the snake, typically the idea unarmed in FMA, again from my experience, is to get to your own weapon, while preventing the opponent from using there's. I suppose the defanging aspect is getting them to not use there's; that's done either by knocking there hand away as hard as you can, in a way that gives you time (to run, 'stun', or grab your weapon), or by 'trapping' there arm to allow stunning or grabbing your weapon. I've never heard it referred to that aspect as defanging the snake, but I suppose it could fit.
     
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  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I have seen them do it. Lots of scissor style blocks or bicept strikes.

    As far as practicality I have sort of made the concept work when people fence their hand out bit haven't really ever caught a punch with it.
     
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  4. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    I'm not a knowledgeable in all FMAs but in Pekiti-Tirsia 'gunting' is a scissoring motion. Empty hand in Pekiti derives from knife. The gross motion of gunting is used across all weapon categories with is being a parrying motion in concert with a striking motion. With a weapon it's easy to see the destructive nature of the strike. With empty hand while it can be painful it isn't very destructive. We tend to use empty hand gunting more as a drill for practicing & fine tuning timing, targeting, and a place holder for when one has a weapon.
    Can it be successful to 'destroy' a fist...yes it can be very painful but in the reality of a fight one has to have precise timing and positioning. I've pulled off many guntings and have had many done to me in empty sparring but it has never stopped the other person. Sore knuckles and bruised muscles but never stopped me whereas the follow-ups to the gunting has caused far more damage.
     
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  5. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I agree with Danny. It is a fairly natural defensive posture. It is important to remember you are going to be in close and will have control of only one arm, depending on your follow through. I don't remember stepping to the inside of the attacking arm but I suppose it would work and may get you in a better position to get your own weapon.
    I definitely see it as a block or entry into a lock, not a strike, although a block can be delivered with quite a lot of force.
    You see a cross block/scissor block/gunt quite a lot in TKD but the thought process is different. Usually it is practiced for an attack coming in very low (front kick to groin) or very high (downward strike). The motion after the block doesn't flow as cleanly as the motions in Kali in my opinion. They are more attuned to the out-fighting methodology of TKD.
    I am curious to hear @skribs thoughts on this.
     
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  6. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    If he does get around to showing up, a video post or two would be nice.

    See i dont think i had someone explain it as a action to move the fist out of the way or buy time to get a weapon. Obviously i know FMA is weapons first mentality, but i thought the ideology for unarmed was its otherwise out of play, either you dont have it, or its not out or it broke. At least in part.

    The only real Gunting esque thing i would say has a really high viability rate (on its own merit) is the high guard with elbows. Thats not really used as a opening to strike second, you can really break fists with your elbows so if you present someone the hardest segment of your skull and elbows they run a real risk of breaking their fist. And a tag onto that, not sure if its FMA or not, is directing, or trying to direct someone fist into your elbow in that guard. and its predominately defensive unless you count trying to direct fists onto your elbows and offensive.


    thanks for replies anyway.

    @Danny T would be interesting to know, does the majority of people benefit in timing etc after doing those drills for long enough?
     
  7. Christopher Adamchek

    Christopher Adamchek Blue Belt

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    you got some good answers, wish i got to this question sooner, there isnt much i can add lol
     
  8. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I don't even know what gunting is. What is it you want my opinion on?
     
  9. MetalBoar

    MetalBoar Green Belt

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    I do know what gunting is and still every time I read this thread title I see "grunting" and I wonder what the heck that has to do with martial arts. Are we talking about a kiai or a question about the valsalva maneuver? Oh! right! gunting not grunting!
     
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  10. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I don't even know what the valsalva maneuver is.
     
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  11. MetalBoar

    MetalBoar Green Belt

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    Well, there's a lot more to it but as it might relate to this forum it's a method of breath control that's used in power lifting and some other related activities to stabilize the trunk and maximize functional force output: Valsalva maneuver - Wikipedia

    A grunt is a partial, usually unintentional, valsalva.
     
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  12. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    ^^^^Me too. Glad to know I'm not the only one.

    The FMA I trained did not emphasize gunting, especially empty handed. The emphasis was on going "direct" and shutting down the core. Gunting, if it happenned was an opportunistic thing that might happen as a by-product of good position, etc.

    In WC I've done, this would fall under the saying (kuen kuit) Chase center, don't chase hands!
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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