Critique vs Criticism

Discussion in 'Members in Motion' started by jks9199, Nov 13, 2014.

  1. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Critique: evaluate in a detailed and analytical way
    Criticize: find the faults with or about something

    Please remember that there is a difference. Many times, we find ourselves criticizing posts and videos when they ask for a critique. Critiques are generally factual and objective, though they may own opinions within a critique. If you want to stay on the right side of the rules and friendly spirit hereabouts, review your post before you hit send, and make sure that you're offering a critique rather than finding fault.
     
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  2. Tarrycat

    Tarrycat Green Belt

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    I think a lot of people don't know the difference, to be quite honest.
     
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  3. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Which is why I typically refrain from offering anything but encouragement to any video posted, unless the person posting it asks for suggestions, recommendations, etc, and then I try to be gentle but concise.

    I am not enough of an expert on basically anything to offer a lot of positive criticism, so I often don't say anything, but just click 'like' on the video to indicate that I saw it and want to offer general encouragement.

    I've posted a few of my own, and after a few hundred views and no replies, I've done the head-scratching "That bad, eh?" and moved on. Sometimes I'd rather have negative feedback than silence.
     
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  4. Tarrycat

    Tarrycat Green Belt

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    That's a good strategy to have. Just know that you have just as much of a right as the next person to share your opinion. I agree with it having to be constructive, & gentle; not criticising or harsh. Some people on here have a criticising tone to their opinions, & it is discouraging to say the least, especially for newcomers.

    Those known to be supportive on this site, are actually very nice & open-minded. I simply don't reply to rude people. I don't give them my time of day.
     
  5. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Old saying said, "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it". This will always prevent problems. IMO, it's better to send out positive energy than to send out negative energy. Some people like to say "old, sick, weak, standing, ..." I like to say, "young, healthy, strong, running, ...".

    If A and B have disagreement, in stead of to quote A that you disagree with him, it may be better to quote B and say that you agree with him.
     
  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Agree! Sometime after you made your post, that thread is dead. You start to wonder, "What did I do to just kill that thread?"

    I though I had put some good information in the following tread. That thread is dead after my last post and I don't know why. In that post, I believe I just offer my opinion.

    A Choke for a Choke: A Basic Guillotine Counter
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  7. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    You have a point, but there is overlap.

    Example, Johny Highkick posts a sparring video. Within the video we witness johnny eating a lot of shots to the face, because he keeps his hands down and feet planted. Johny has some great kicks tho. Johnny asks for critique and tips on his video.

    Poster A replies, You have great kicks, but you keep your hands too low and dont move enough, you should work on your footwork and try to keep your hands up!

    Now, is that critique or criticism? How does one offer advice on correcting or improving weaknesses(faults) without first identifying them(criticism)?
     
  8. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    FWIW, I don't reply to any of the BJJ basic video/threads, but read them all, as I'm just starting BJJ. I found your post there very informative.
     
  9. Swanson

    Swanson Yellow Belt

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    Always be positive if you can
    Like the famous book called the SECRET
     
  10. pdg

    pdg Master of Arts

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    I like constructive criticism...

    Point out what you think is wrong/bad, then suggest possible ways to fix/improve it.

    "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing" might work for some people, but it's not exactly useful.

    Things like the "criticism sandwich" get on my nerves too - like "X was good (positive), you should work more on Y (negative), Z was great too (positive). That's two lumps of wasted time.

    I have nothing at all against commenting/congratulating if something is good, but if something isn't good why not help to remedy it?
     
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  11. dvcochran

    dvcochran Black Belt

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    Criticizing is much more subjective. I suggest stepping back and creating your answers for as many perspectives as possible. Experience (personal not someone else's)helps a ton.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    My favorite technique is one I was taught by a training group I was certified with. They pass critique along with Liked Best and Next Time. I use it a lot. It gives people feedback on what they are doing well (and so should not stop doing, or maybe even consider leveraging more), then feedback on what they could do better next time (whether it was bad, or just not enough of the good, or just a missed opportunity). And we usually do it by having the person deliver their own LB/NT first, so we got into the habit of looking at our own performance and giving that feedback before listening to someone else's. Having to put into words what you think went well and/or could be better is really useful.
     
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  13. dvcochran

    dvcochran Black Belt

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    When I think of negative criticism I think of the damming statements or stupid comments. Of course being thoughtful is important but I am never offended by someone being direct. It's efficient and effective. I love the old saying "get all the liars in the same room and you will get the right answer". I hope anyone posting on the forum isn't just looking for an ego stroke.
     
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  14. CrazedChris

    CrazedChris Green Belt

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    I am not proficient enough in anything yet to critique or criticize, but I do appreciate when someone tells me something helpful. Don't tell me I am not good at something, I usually already know that. Helpful constructive criticism it always welcome and I think necessary.
     
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  15. pdg

    pdg Master of Arts

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    What about if someone were to say "you're not so good at abc, you can improve by doing xyz"?

    That's saying you're not good, but in a constructive way (not destructive, like "hey, that's bad" ;))
     
  16. CrazedChris

    CrazedChris Green Belt

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    I would find that helpful. I should clarify. I don't find it helpful if someone says to me, "you suck", and leaves it at that. ;)
     
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  17. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    There is a lot involved in teaching Martial Arts. Really, it's a vast thing. Critiquing is one of the essentials.

    Criticising, however, at least as how I view the word, is not only a waste of time, it is a statement. "I am an a-hole".
     
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  18. pdg

    pdg Master of Arts

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    Now here's where there's the difference between English and English - again.

    A critique need not be useful, it need not offer any suggestions or solutions - it's basically a detailed review.

    I can legitimately say "that's crap because reasons" and that's a critique.

    I can watch a video of a form/kata/tul and state "the kicks are wrong, the punches are weak, the stance is incorrect" - and that's a critique.

    I don't need to add anything whatsoever to those statements for them to fall under the dictionary definition of critique, they are complete.

    They are also critical, and therefore criticism.

    They are also technically reviews - just bad ones.

    Somehow, I don't think anybody would appreciate me offering a critique ;)


    As I alluded to before, I find absolutely no value in just praise either - unless there really is no room for improvement.

    So, if this section is intended to be in line with "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing" then in my view I have no contribution whatsoever to make - in any fashion (sharing or commenting).


    So, should I continue with my policy of constructive criticism or just ignore the section?
     
  19. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I think you're right, English and English.
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    There's some nuance beyond the dictionary definitions. Critiquing someone normally involves at least specifying why something isn't good, which is partway to offering advice on what could be improved (even if it doesn't include advice on how to make that improvement). When we say "constructive criticism", there's a reason we find it necessary to add that predecessor word - it entirely changes the connotation. Constructive criticism is like a critique that includes a bit of how with the why.
     
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