Confessions of a security guy

Discussion in 'The Locker Room Bar & Grill' started by Grey Eyed Bandit, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Let me also, for the record, state the following.

    Most customers, i.e. business owners, are not psychopaths. At least not from the beginning. I would say that most of them are regular people who know nothing about security procedure, laws, risk management etc., and who for this very reason hire an authorized security company because they've gotten the impression that those guys are professionals who know what they're doing. I also believe that, at least deep down, most customers believe that if the were to make a suggestion in the manner of "I have a problem, and I was thinking that maybe we could solve it like this", then of course, said security company would also object to said solution should it prove to be illegal or otherwise inadvisable.

    But that's now how things play out in real life.

    In reality, most companies will tell the client that "sure! If you want it that way, then you'll get it that way!" And this is no different than spoiling children - sooner or later you will have created a monster. It's happened more than a few times that we've stopped working with businesses for the simple fact that we were unable to guarantee the safety of the people we apprehended. Also, you'll hear some customers telling you whenever you've brought someone in that "ok, we'll keep an eye on that guy until the police arrive, you get your derriere back out there now and do what we're paying you to do". This is stupid as well as highly illegal, in that when you've apprehended someone, you're legally responsible for that person until you've handed them over to the police. The last customer who wanted things done this way even proceeded to call up my section leader (with my phone, no less) and tell him that he refused to pay for the work I was doing that day. Thankfully, we let him loose after that.
     
  2. Transk53

    Transk53 The Dark Often Prevails

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    Don't know about the public administration system in the Sates, but avoiding doing the wrong isn't indicative of one country. I have, and have had bizarre consequences, that's just life, not bound by any given circumstances, or system.

    To me avoidance is a sticky wicket, which translates across many a thing. Seems to me the crux of you're issues is where you live and work perhaps.
     
  3. Transk53

    Transk53 The Dark Often Prevails

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    Blimey, now this thread has really lost me. Are you talking about customers being handled with over the top, or unnecessary force I guess I should put it??
     
  4. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    When I say "customers" or "clients", I'm referring to the people who employ us.

     
  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    'Intellectual dishonesty', that doesn't mean what you think it does. I am telling you how you come across in your posts, I'm not arguing with you or presenting any case other than my opinion which is that your post are all about you and your difficulties with people.

    Nope, I don't care who you have problems with, if you are having problems with that many people look at what is the cause, look honestly because here you are showing a distinct prejudice against one particular group.

    Not, that doesn't mean what you think it does either. I'm not arguing with you or presently a fact based case, this is my opinion, you may disagree, which is fine but my opinion is not an argument, it is an honest opinion. If I were dishonest I would sugarcoat my words and say everything is fine.

    So, you know more about the laws than your police force? why aren't you a police officer or lawyer?

    Nope still not correct. As I said you are picking up words and throwing them around like you think you know what they mean. In my opinion you are playing the victim, if you aren't look at your writing to see where this impression comes from.
     
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  6. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    In the UK a security guard has no more legal powers than any other non police officer ( and certain other official bodies) so anyone can look after someone who has been apprehended. There is no legal need for someone who has detained the suspect to hand them over to the police, anyone can do it. We'd expect the security guard to be reachable and there is possible for statements etc. Shop staff here do not indulge in behaviour that makes it dangerous for a suspect to be detained, the police must be called immediately and they would be quite happy to arrest staff if the suspect is assaulted or harmed. I know of nowhere where these things aren't done properly, this isn't a moral thing it's just far too much trouble and cause huge problems if procedures aren't carried out correctly. No one wants a shop lifter let off which is what will happen if the procedures aren't adhered to.
     
  7. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Intellectual honesty - Wikipedia

    "Intentionally committed fallacies in debates and reasoning are called intellectual dishonesty."

    This is exactly what you're doing, you're cherrypicking the bits and pieces from my posts that you think confirms your bias about me, whilst conveniently ignoring everything I say which is incompatible with the point you're trying to make. Locally, that's referred to as "reading my posts like the devil reads the bible".

    Yeah, and that's a strawman, which is intellectually dishonest.


    No, I'm not. This just goes to show how you conveniently ignore everything I've written that contradicts your thesis.


    I've written about this before in this very thread. And as long as lay judges are employed, I don't want anything to do with working as either a lawyer or a prosecutor.


    Now you're accusing me of the same thing you're doing.
     
  8. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Yeah, I figured someone might say that, which is why I wrote what I did in the first post of this thread. You wouldn't have needed to write this, and I wouldn't have needed to respond to it, had you simply read that post and kept it in mind. You didn't, all in accordance with your pattern of ignoring the things I write which doesn't fit your agenda.

    Congratulations. Really.

    That's not true where I'm at. The south side police have even instigated a project where they're actively encouraging staff and security to confront potential thieves even before they've passed the point of last possible sale. They claim it's safer and helps them with their understaffing problems. Like I said, you wouldn't believe the kind of BS they put out sometimes.
     
  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No, I am not debating with you. An opinion cannot be a fallacy, it can be disagreed with, laughed at, agreed with, ignored but it's an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
    to have a 'bias' against you would mean I actually think what you write is valid, I don't, in my opinion you are playing the victim and want confirmation form other posters. You don't get it from me so you throw words around like a tantrum.
    You are obviously miffed because I don't address all your words, why would I? I am addressing the words which pinpoint your attitude towards people, including us. I don't have a 'thesis' , I gave an opinion. If you don't like it, ignore it. Keep posting up and you are inviting opinions.
     
  10. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I assume it didn't occur to you that might be for the benefit of other posters who are not from the UK? MT is about sharing information. You are showing once again that you think everything is about you, why would you need to respond?
     
  11. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    You're making statements about what I'm trying to accomplish with my posts in this thread which flat-out aren't true. That goes beyond the realm of opinions and into outright dishonesty.

    In other words, you've created a false hypothesis for yourself and now you're looking for ways to support it. That is not what I'm doing and that is not my goal, stating that it is is an outright lie.

    So your belittling of the racism directed towards myself doesn't say anything about your attitude towards me? Right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  12. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Share information is exactly what I did in said post, which you chose to ignore. That is your problem, don't blame me for it.

    I went out of my way to tell people that I was not working within a UK or US type legal framework. You ignored it. Hence, apparently everything is about YOU.
     
  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I asked you why you were posting and you haven't answered. If the purpose of your posting is supposed to be obvious you have failed in your objective, all we see is a lot of racist comments and 'poor me' posting.
     
  14. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You don't get this do you? I wasn't talking to you, you posted up some information, I posted up some as well, they would compliment each other for people perhaps like Americans who have no knowledge of either of our systems, hopefully then an American and/or an Australian with knowledge would post up what they do and then we'd all be a little more knowledgeable, we would be able to converse about our respective systems, how we work, what we think etc. It would be a conversation which is common on MT, it's how human contact flows.
     
  15. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Yeah, because you're being intellectually dishonest and conveniently ignoring stuff that I write.

     
  16. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    I will admit that wasn't what I had in mind when I started this thread, mainly because it's a subject matter I'm not all that familiar with. Having said that, I have no problems with people from different areas sharing experiences in this thread, provided that it's done without the inherent assumption that what goes for one area always applies to everywhere else as well. Sadly, there are countless examples of this within this very thread. Once more - I have NO PROBLEM with people putting in their experiences from elsewhere. Just keep in mind that it's not always where everyone else is coming from.
     
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No, I'm being unintellectually amused by your whatever you call 'venting', it's not, it's just you being nasty about people, racist about others and whinging.
     
  18. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    No, again, it's because you ignore the bits I've written that don't fit in with your agenda. Confessions of a security guy
     
  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well now that somewhat 'intellectually dishonest' isn't it, I said explained quite plainly without any assumption that it was the same in any country how we did things in the UK yet you had a hissy fit at me, tut tut dear boy.
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't have an 'agenda', all my impressions of you and how you think are taken from reading everything you have written.123
     

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