Combatives of the future...

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by bujuts, Oct 20, 2003.

  1. bujuts

    bujuts Green Belt

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    Ok, maybe this has been addressed before, maybe it hasn't. I've had this discussion before on another forum and find it a pretty interesting topic to banter about.

    What will hand-to-hand combat be like in zero gravity? Many ideas come to my head but I'd like to hear from others.

    To add, I don't think this is the stuff of science fiction at all. I'd say there will be some measures to develop these sorts of skills within the next century or so. It's not at all far fetched to imagine permanent space stations orbiting the earth, the moon, or one of the other planets that holds perhaps a few dozen people. On such vessels, security will be of prime importance for measures against sabotage and even terrosism.

    Alot of power bases we rely on would go out the window. I forsee alot of joint work, striking while maintaining contact, and more coordinated attacks using several people.

    You thoughts? May the learning be plenty.

    Good day.

    Steven Brown
    Uinversal Kenpo Federation
     
  2. Old Fat Kenpoka

    Old Fat Kenpoka Master Black Belt

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    I forsee a lot of grappling, holding and hitting, choking, and pushing off the walls to execute moves previously only imaginable by Kung-Fu movie choreographers.
     
  3. bujuts

    bujuts Green Belt

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    Even firearms would change. A few rounds out of a 0.45 without something to brace against would send you off in perhaps unwanted directions, and even facing the wrond direction.

    Interesting stuff.

    Cheers,

    Steve Brown
     
  4. Old Fat Kenpoka

    Old Fat Kenpoka Master Black Belt

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    Don't for get about the little holes in the spacecraft hull. Imagine having your opponent sucked into the vacuum through a 9mm hole!
     
  5. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Senior Master

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    Firearms in a self-contained pressurized environment is a monumentally bad idea.

    The biggest issue is the lack of any ground to form a good base. Even grappling requires this. If you try to put an arm bar on someone with nothing to ground yourself to, both you and your opponent will just end up spinning.

    Without putting too much though into this, the most effective way to strike someone would probably be to grab them, then punch, maybe kick, them. Their mass could help stabilize you enough to deliver a moderately powerful blow, and would help counter any unwanted body motions caused by inertia.

    Interesting to think about. The second biggest problem would be inertia. If floating in a microgravity environment, the simple act of doing a traditional karate chamber for a punch would cause you to spin in the opposite direction. Chambering one hand while punching with the other simultaneously may cancel that out, but the direction of motion would have to be taken into account as well.

    Cthulhu
     
  6. NYCRonin

    NYCRonin Purple Belt

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    There would probably be a certain similarity to fighting in a water environment - not unlike the work done in Spec. forces and the concepts that Bujinkan utilizes for the subject.
    Grappling that would maintain hold on the body, striking also; along with an emphasis on vulnerable area strikes - as opposed to body blows.
    Interesting thought for a thread.
     
  7. bujuts

    bujuts Green Belt

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    Duh! I never considered aquatic fighting! Seriously, thanks for bringing it to my attention. I admit to my own form of tunnel vision at times, and you have helped this simpleton find another crack in the tunnel wall.

    With that said, now I'm very eager to understand at least some aspects of this. I live near the Pacific, so its best to be prepare for the occasional 15 foot shark that needs to be put in place.

    (pause for effect)

    Cheers.

    Steven Brown
    UKF
     
  8. NYCRonin

    NYCRonin Purple Belt

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    One of the basics of aqua-combat is to remove the breath of the oponent while retaining yours - and using the water itself as a weapon to drown and/or disable the opponent. In zero-grav, this would be done by various chokes.
    Bladed weapons are also used, with the goal being to 'insert' the blade as opposed to 'stabbing' - using soft targets.
    In the water, you will find that a good number of locks actually rely on gravity binding the opponent to the ground - a barrier that will be missing. The locks that can be modified - so you hold the body and use the leverage to break a limb would be useful.

    When you do train in the water, might I recommend you have a 3rd party to play referee/life guard and do not work in water that is too deep - to facilitate safety.
     
  9. psi_radar

    psi_radar Black Belt

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    I love thinking about this stuff.

    Energy weapons or heat weapons would have to take duty over firearms due to a couple of reasons--blowback of compressed energy and the risk of compromising the integrity of your environment. There's actually two environments to talk about here--one is within a pressurized, open-air environment, another is within a pressure suit out in vacuum.

    Against a pressure suit, piercing or cutting the suit would cause catastrophic results. Your own suit could be equipped with blades and superheating pads that could get through a regular suit. If the suit was armored, more complex methods would have to be used. How about "smart" projectiles that would be deployed with a small amount of compressed gas, then either exploded on contact or activated as a small robot demolition/borer/limpet mine type thing. An epoxy gun that restricts movement could be deadly too. At grappling range, a spring-activated punch of hardened, sharpened steel or titanium attached to your suit on wrists or knees could also be nasty.

    In a pressurized environment, blowguns and garrotes (symmetrical application of force) would get popular. I wonder how well slingshots, crossbows and other sprung weapons might work.

    As for empty hand, grappling seems practical. I think striking would also be possible, but would add a new dimension (literally) to your fight. It would be hard to deliver any force without some type of base, though.

    Wow, sorry for the long post, I got carried away.
     
  10. Zepp

    Zepp Master of Arts

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    I also forsee grappling becoming extremely important in empty-hand fighting in zero gravity. I imagine that effective striking would require using the walls to brace yourself, or launch yourself from. People make great projectiles in zero-G.
     
  11. Eldritch Knight

    Eldritch Knight Blue Belt

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    Ha, anyone could perform wire-fu without the wires! Crouching Tiger becomes reality!
     
  12. Dijos

    Dijos Guest

    What's the debate? we'll all have lightsabers by that point..--Joe
     
  13. kenpo12

    kenpo12 Guest

    It would be a wierd version of grappling because without gravity your hips are going to lose alot of power. I think we would all have to rely on alot of strength.
     
  14. loki09789

    loki09789 Senior Master

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    strength/power generation requires something to lever off of or from. I think tools would be incorporated to help create leverage - like magnetic boots and self propulsion systems.

    Paul
     
  15. loki09789

    loki09789 Senior Master

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    It might look a lot like a hockey fight. Use the opponent as the anchor and hit and tie up.
     
  16. Bod

    Bod Purple Belt

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    Check out http://www.pixi.com/~mcjitsu/mizujitsu/mizujitsu.html .

    I think their art s predicated on subduing the attacker rather than killing them. After all, if you are trying to stop a beginner surfacing too quickly, the last thing you want to do is pull out their mouthpiece. Their mouthpiece is probably out already.123
     

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