Archangel M
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Climate change....
- Thread starter Archangel M
- Start date
Yeah, but what's your point? That people... even "scientists" get panicky and jump to premature conclusions? No doubt.
Then again, climate science has progressed a lot in 35 years. Considering the progress in this field, I worry about people that just reject global warming as some kind of leftist plot. It's too important a subject to approach with your mind made up.
Global warming does cause global cooling.
Sean
Sean
I have no trouble believing that we are currently going through a period of global warming, not global cooling.
However, keep in mind that the trend is determined by the period and the interval. If you take the last several years only, you might be convinced that the earth's climate is cooling. If you look at temperatures since the beginning of the Industrial Age, you'd think that global temperatures are rising.
So I am perfectly willing to agree that over the most useful period (the last 200 years or so), the global climate is rising.
What I have problem with are these items:
1) Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) meaning it was caused by humans or humans have had a significant impact on global warming. I am willing to accept it is possible, but I do not think it has been proven, nor do I think there is a consensus amongst scientists that is has been proven.
2) Politicians, scientists, pundits, and reporters who continue to intentionally conflate the terms 'global warming' and 'anthropogenic global warming' for their own benefit. I ran into yet another example with a friend the other night. I voiced my doubt that AGW exists, and he came right back with HOW CAN YOU DENY THAT GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS?!?!?! Well, I don't. But AGW and GW are not the same thing, IDIOT!
3) Spending more of our tax dollars to 'fix' what may not be fixable.
4) The idea that even if we humans broke the planet, we possess the ability to fix it.
I'm tired, really sick to death, of the alarmists running their cake-holes over this sky-is-falling crap. I don't want to hear it anymore. It might be real, yes indeed it might. But that possibility is not the same as proof, and I don't want to mortgage even MORE of our future on the chance that it might be. I want the AGW conspiracy jackholes to stick a sock in it.
However, keep in mind that the trend is determined by the period and the interval. If you take the last several years only, you might be convinced that the earth's climate is cooling. If you look at temperatures since the beginning of the Industrial Age, you'd think that global temperatures are rising.
So I am perfectly willing to agree that over the most useful period (the last 200 years or so), the global climate is rising.
What I have problem with are these items:
1) Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) meaning it was caused by humans or humans have had a significant impact on global warming. I am willing to accept it is possible, but I do not think it has been proven, nor do I think there is a consensus amongst scientists that is has been proven.
2) Politicians, scientists, pundits, and reporters who continue to intentionally conflate the terms 'global warming' and 'anthropogenic global warming' for their own benefit. I ran into yet another example with a friend the other night. I voiced my doubt that AGW exists, and he came right back with HOW CAN YOU DENY THAT GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS?!?!?! Well, I don't. But AGW and GW are not the same thing, IDIOT!
3) Spending more of our tax dollars to 'fix' what may not be fixable.
4) The idea that even if we humans broke the planet, we possess the ability to fix it.
I'm tired, really sick to death, of the alarmists running their cake-holes over this sky-is-falling crap. I don't want to hear it anymore. It might be real, yes indeed it might. But that possibility is not the same as proof, and I don't want to mortgage even MORE of our future on the chance that it might be. I want the AGW conspiracy jackholes to stick a sock in it.
kaizasosei
Master Black Belt
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the climate is always changing. In 4.5 thousand years it will be some different and in 9 thousand years, provided the world goes on, climate will be even more different. I do believe that our actions cause some warming of the planet and contamination of the atmosphere. However, that in itself is in my opinion insignificant in the climatic sense. Other than poisoning ourselves, the effects are neglegible. Because the climate is like a beach of sand and our actions are like a few grains. Also, the climate is influenced by a great many factors-each of which carries considerably more weight than we could ever muster up even, with all our technology.
The world in itself is utterly indestructable. It is only life and the balance of the ecosystem that we are disturbing and destroying. So we are destroying ourselves and the other life on this planet-but do you know how many little creatures you step on just taking a walk in the forest. apparently plenty.
Life is messy, life causes waste-but that waste is managable by nature and the cosmos. It's just that we are fooling around with materials and waste that we and the creatures around us cannot handle. So to protect life is good. But not to say it's because of climate change, because if you believe the milenkovic theory, then in 9 thousand years, summer will be almost twice as hot as now and winter would be minus 100 or something like that. And there is no way to stop that from happening. Because if the angle of the planets precession is truly changing slowly, being 23.4 degrees right now(and decreasing), then it will reach a point where there are no seasons. So if that is the case, it would mean very extreme climate change.
Plus, i have heard that it is understood that we are currently at the end of an iceage. That means that at the moment, this is not the normal climate. The natural inclination climate is supposed to be more like a rain forest. But then again, i myself believe that the climate is not stable at all, it's just changing so slowly that we have not yet been able to really witness it completely.
j
The world in itself is utterly indestructable. It is only life and the balance of the ecosystem that we are disturbing and destroying. So we are destroying ourselves and the other life on this planet-but do you know how many little creatures you step on just taking a walk in the forest. apparently plenty.
Life is messy, life causes waste-but that waste is managable by nature and the cosmos. It's just that we are fooling around with materials and waste that we and the creatures around us cannot handle. So to protect life is good. But not to say it's because of climate change, because if you believe the milenkovic theory, then in 9 thousand years, summer will be almost twice as hot as now and winter would be minus 100 or something like that. And there is no way to stop that from happening. Because if the angle of the planets precession is truly changing slowly, being 23.4 degrees right now(and decreasing), then it will reach a point where there are no seasons. So if that is the case, it would mean very extreme climate change.
Plus, i have heard that it is understood that we are currently at the end of an iceage. That means that at the moment, this is not the normal climate. The natural inclination climate is supposed to be more like a rain forest. But then again, i myself believe that the climate is not stable at all, it's just changing so slowly that we have not yet been able to really witness it completely.
j
CoryKS
Senior Master
Give it up, man. You can't convince people to give up their religion.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
The sky is falling!!!!!!!
The sky is falling!!!!!!!
The sky is falling!!!!!!!
The sky is falling!!!!!!!
...but then again...nobody listened to Jor-El and look what happened to Krypton. You don't want to end up like Krypton do you!?!?
The sky is falling!!!!!!!
The sky is falling!!!!!!!
The sky is falling!!!!!!!
...but then again...nobody listened to Jor-El and look what happened to Krypton. You don't want to end up like Krypton do you!?!?
kaizasosei
Master Black Belt
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Sure. research on energy sources and positive steps to a cleaner environment is great.
In this day of globalization, management of our actions is important.
The real motive is of course, controlling the countries that are only beginning with the same madness with which we have been polluting. That means robing them of the chance to learn for themselves or it could be seen as guiding them. Possibly with better technology but probably also with sanctions..
It's like philippines getting it's economic independance. I would hope the ulterior motives really be environmental and not economic. But if you know how the world works and how it is run, then it would good to question the economic side of the whole thing.
j
j
In this day of globalization, management of our actions is important.
The real motive is of course, controlling the countries that are only beginning with the same madness with which we have been polluting. That means robing them of the chance to learn for themselves or it could be seen as guiding them. Possibly with better technology but probably also with sanctions..
It's like philippines getting it's economic independance. I would hope the ulterior motives really be environmental and not economic. But if you know how the world works and how it is run, then it would good to question the economic side of the whole thing.
j
j
Who is disparaging those that are looking for more efficient ways to light a house?
Nothing wrong with it at all. Especially if it saves me money. I use the new compact fluorescent bulbs in my house and my apartment. I have no problems with 'going green' at all when it puts money into my pocket and does something positive for the environment.
I do have a problem with the USA offering to pick up the tab for third-world countries to clean up their act, while they pay nothing. We become less competitive, and we tax our own citizens to pay for the clean up done by others. I won't have it.
It's just one aspect, but conservation tends to be looked down upon in general by global warming opponents. They just have to drive a giant SUV etc.
kaizasosei:
As for developing countries, you'd think avoiding having the headache of multiple superfund sites etc would be desirable over the alternative. There are better models than mindless pollution just 'cause it might be a little cheaper in the short term.
When an incandescent bulb is broken, there is glass to clean up, when a CF bulb is broken, there is MERCURY to clean up. That and you know, personal choice...
Yeah, conservation seems real popular with the global warming alarmist crowd, they poo poo SUV's while flying in private jets, having HUGE utility bills for their homes (Yes! Al Gore!)etc.
They'd garner more respect if they walked the walk...
Eh. Wasting for the sake of wasting's stupid no matter who does it.
As for the CFL's (I'm kinda wary of 'em cause one melted the switch in one of my lamps when it started to burn out) there are always the LED bulbs if that trace amount of mercury bugs you that much.
Agreed. The hypocracy is draining though, it grows weary to hear talk of sweeping lifestyle changes made by people that will not take their own advice.
However I am all for taking my own steps to conserve. Giving up an SUV entirely is not an option, but driving a small one that doesn't engage 4WD unless necessary is something I am fine with doing. I occasionally carpool with my night shift counterpart. I am not fond of ordinary flourescent lighting but begrudgingly use one at work and I have a DayLight at my house (which I like much better).
When the LED bulbs get better, I will likely switch to those as well. Of course, if anyone would like to gift me some LED bulbs in the interim I will graciously accept them. C'mon, its for the planet! :lol:
Do people really know anything about Al Gore or any other prominent environmentalist? For example, you might look at a picture of his house, but do you know how he offsets his carbon footprint? Of course not, but folks just love to try to find hypocrisy, as if everyone with a conscience were some kind of Tibetan monk or holy saint. If your pain around your own lack of action causes you to look for solace in pointing fingers at others, you need to think long and hard about your life.
Frankly, I'm sick of the supposed 'debate'. It's no debate at all. It's happening. It's happening UNLIKE anything in the history of the world. It's not the Medieval cooling period or anything else. It's happening much harder and much faster than anything else in the history of the planet. It's unprecedented, and I don't know why people don't understand that.
And yes, the U.S will reap enormous benefits from helping developing nations to foot their bills in moving to greener technologies. Think about it instead of being so knee jerk (ie; I refuse to pay for some other country!)
Frankly, I'm sick of the supposed 'debate'. It's no debate at all. It's happening. It's happening UNLIKE anything in the history of the world. It's not the Medieval cooling period or anything else. It's happening much harder and much faster than anything else in the history of the planet. It's unprecedented, and I don't know why people don't understand that.
And yes, the U.S will reap enormous benefits from helping developing nations to foot their bills in moving to greener technologies. Think about it instead of being so knee jerk (ie; I refuse to pay for some other country!)
OP
Archangel M
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"Carbon Offsets"... what a load of crap.
If "its happening"...we had nothing to do with it and we will be unable to change it.
If "its happening"...we had nothing to do with it and we will be unable to change it.
OP
Archangel M
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Russians chime in on "Climategate"...
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/146517/Climate-change-lies-by-Britain-
These politicians NEED and WANT man made climate change to excuse the fleecing and repression they have planned for us serfs.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/146517/Climate-change-lies-by-Britain-
These politicians NEED and WANT man made climate change to excuse the fleecing and repression they have planned for us serfs.
CoryKS
Senior Master
"Shut up," he explained.
