Chi Kung form form muscle development and strength

Discussion in 'Chinese Martial Arts - General' started by Curios7877, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Curios7877

    Curios7877 White Belt

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    I'm searching for a chi kung set that has it's focuses purely on dyanmic tension. I would really like to know which prioritises dynamic tension the most in all the styles that are out there.

    I would guess probably something from a southern style but I would love if somebody could enlighten me. Thanks very much for your help in advance.

    (I'm well aware about the fact that for a solely muscle building/strenghtening effect one is better of with weight training. But besides the fact that all gyms are still closed in my country just a thought experiment what is the set would do best for muscle strength/building?)
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    do any kata very slowly holding maximum contraction of the muscles or forget the kata and just hold max contraction of the muscles
     
  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    It all depends on what benefit you are trying to get out of it. Not all of it is the same nor do they address the same issues.
    What Jobo is referring too is more likely to improve explosive power of techniques. The most important part that I would start with is understanding the breathing requirements.

    Whatever you decide to do, make sure you do more than just copy what you see. There's a lot more going on than just copying the movements and there's a lot of things you'll need to pay attention to as you do Chi Kung. Even when using tensions there are things you'll need to focus on internally as you do it.
     
  4. Tenshin

    Tenshin Yellow Belt

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    Any wai gong posture holding does this. Qigong has both Wai gong and Nei gong practices. Wai gong is more tension pressure to build Qi, Neigong uses more relaxing methods to build Qi in a general sense. Yi Jin Jing is one of the most well known Wai gong Qigong sets. Most tension pressure exercises if done incorrectly or to much can have bad effects and certain people with high blood pressure, heart problems it is not recommended.
     
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  5. Curios7877

    Curios7877 White Belt

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    Thanks for the answers so far.

    The benefit I'm trying to get out of this is a exclusively external strength building set. My background is Goju karate and I always enjoyed doing Sanchin to training and improving my muscle strength for the most I'm aware that the internal aspect of Sanchin also is important in Karate. But sometimes I only use the Kata as a dynamic tension isometric/exercise set.

    Now I wonder if there is a dynamic tension exercise set alike in any Kung fu style that's main purpose is to build strength and tone martial arts specific muscle like high tension sanchin in Goju Ryu Karate.
     
  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    your really starting this from a false premise and as such can go a long way in the wrong direction, before having to spend a long time reversing what your done

    ma are full body exercises, you need to work the full body in " exercises," as you need to develop the full body, not just the obvious ma specific muscle groups or you are leaving petformance on the table and may end up with structural imbalance, which seriously effect your posture and general functioning in the medium to long term

    if your going to prioritise muscle groups start with where you have weaknesses to bring ballance back to your body, which with striking arts, seem to be the posterior chain.
    dont forget them hamstrings, just about nobody works their hamstrings, which may well acount for the suspiciously high number of people on here with hip and knee problems
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  7. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Golden Bell is an isometric exercise.

    I’m not sure you would classify this kind of thing as Qi-gong. The Qi-gong I am familiar with tends to be relaxed, as heavy tension is believed to obstruct Qi flow.
     
  8. mograph

    mograph Master Black Belt

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    Yeah, sorry, if it's external, it's not qigong. Nothing wrong with either, just two complementary approaches.

    Regardless of categorizations, maybe you're looking for Zhan Zhuang?
     
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  9. yak sao

    yak sao Senior Master

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    Years ago I trained a form called Test Lohan Chin Chuan and got great benefits from it.

    Also there is a form called Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen from Hung style maybe?
     
  10. yak sao

    yak sao Senior Master

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    Auto correct got me.....should be teet Lohan, not test
     
  11. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    There is no external Qigong?

    Then why do the Chinese have different terms of internal and external Qigong, huh?
     
  12. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    will build muscle, but if the plan is to get ripped doing just those, likely will not happen
     
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  13. Curios7877

    Curios7877 White Belt

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    Thanks guys. I definately will research all those suggestions. To be honest I'm interested in something like Harry Wong's "Dynamic strength" or John McSweeney's "Tiger Moves" because I think that Mr Wong and McSweeney didn't got those ideas out of nowhere.
     
  14. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If Dynamic Strength is what I think it is, look up Dynamic tension by Charles Atlas. At least on the western end of things, he was the one who popularized it back in like 1920, and I've seen it show up in shaolin-do with the same name.
    No clue where he got it from, his claim is he got it from watching animals and learning strength-training from them, which sounds oddly like a CMA story that he might have heard from whomever taught him...
     
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  15. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    dydnamic tension is as old as strength training which is quite old, it does seem rather to come into and go out of fashion quite a lot and just repear with another name

    the fitness industry seems to have a down on it at the moment, the cynic in me think that it may be because you have no need to spend any money at all, which isnt at all what a multi billion ibdustry wants to enncourage
     
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  16. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you know where the idea was before 1920? A quick google search isn't coming up with anything.
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    they were called" holds" the only signicant change in the 1920s was to give it a more scientific name
    they were called "holds" the only significant change in the 1920s was they gave ut a,scientific soubdibg name, then isometrics, then iso kinetics then yeilding isometrics , there another name now which escapes me at the moment, its all just variations on a theme, being rebranded

    the barbell is the new kid on the block, before that they either had rocks or holds

    my history of weight training book says they were big in the early 1800s when they either had cannon balls or holds
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  18. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    Of course, because the people who developed qigong were just trying to stay healthy and have average to improved muscle tone and mental state. Pilates and Yoga won't get you ripped either but they will do enough.

    The "Getting ripped" mentality is part of the problem, most people who go for all that extra muscle don't need it to do their jobs, live their lives. They do it to look good naked, so more is always better.

    For those who do want more beef, you can always pick up and start swinging a heavy Shaolin Monk's Spade or an Indian club. Or carry water.
     
  19. Curios7877

    Curios7877 White Belt

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    @jobo that sounds very very interesting can you give me a little bit more input I tried to search for the holds that you've mentioned but I couldn't find anything of course I'm aware about the Charles Atlas stuff and the numerous other courses and their astronomical claims that were available back then but that stuff is to full of old school akward marketing for my taste. And I'm pretty sure that Atlas and those oldtimers didn't invent that stuff either. It's much to intuitve so I would definately not be suprised if those exercisese were already around in greece or rome because that dynamic tension stuff is very similar to many wrestling motions in my opinion. Would be very grateful if you can give me a taste of your knowledge of that topic

    @Oily Dragon let me tell you I'm cross training in submission grappling and Bjj besides TMA training and I have to say that strength is still a very useful thing in combat despite all technique. But I definately agree with you that I would always prefer to wrestle against a 180 pound bodybuilder instead of a 240 pound wrestler that isn't ripped. But strength is still factor in my opinion. And the people back then know a little bit about combat no matter if India, China, Rome or ancient greece
     
  20. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    some of these are holds some are movements, but you can hold the movement at the hardest point or turn them in to yelding isometrics, by slowly releasing

    and there are a whole host of holdsthat take remarkable strengh to do in the first place, lije phanche, front level, l sit etal that you need to work your way up to

    have a look through their other vids for different ideas, they have a lot on progresion123
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021

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