Chi, KI, Internal Energy

[Richard S.]

My first art/system was Sin Moo Hapkido. There we were taught what is called "Dan Jun Ho Hop Bup". In through the nose, out through the mouth, tongue touches the roof of the mouth along with a set series of Qigong like movements. All I ever got from this was a slight manifestation of chi (metalic taste in mouth). After I had to leave (injury) I practiced this method religiously always with the same results. Then at the suggestion of a friend I began Wing Chun. There I was taught the "reverse" method. The difference was incredible. I am trying to paraphrase as much as possible. But, you know the drill called "moneky in the middle"? The first time I did this blind folded 8 out of 10 times I KNEW what was coming. I didn't understand so I tried to analyze it and started collecting bruises. Instead of just "letting go" I tried too hard. Eventually after guidance and practice I began to understand mystery words like "extending" and "void". I also came to understand that I haven't even touched the surface of what chi can accomplish but I know it's there and I believe.......

Respects to all.

 

[Mantis Leg]

Chi is an interesting phenomenon. We all have tremenduous reserves of energy we can tap into in an emergency. To tap into this consciously is a different matter.

First the concept needs to be introduced. A good instructor will show you, usually with a strike. You get to FEEL it. Maybe you get to see it. Maybe your instructor holds out his arm and has you push on it. You can't move it. Then two more people try. He still doesn't move. However it happens, you have been introduced to a concept. Now you need to make it grow.

Qigong develops chi. Some katas are qigong. By visualization chi flow can be fostered. I do think that the awareness of qi comes like a spark that a teacher must give you. You can read and theorize about it but unless you actually FEEL it you will never really know. Now I will humbly thank my instructors for showing me the Way. Thanks guys!!

With humility and gratitude for everything,
Mantis


:asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

A quck story.
My wife suffers from back pain. One day while shopping her back pain was almost makeing her cry and she was haveing problems even walking, say nothing of holding the objects she was buying. She made it to the check out counter and was carefuly takeing things out of the basket when she felt a hand touch her in the small of the back. She said there was a feeling of warmth that flooded her body radiateing from where she was touched. all the pain was gone.
She turned to see an old Asain man looking at her, with what see called "old knowing and careing eyes". She bowed slightly and said thank you. She did not speak futher or draw more attention to the situation for as she put it, 'The peope with him did not look friendly"
Was it a Chi healing? I think so.
Shadow

 

[alan libby]

Chi /KI

In the yesteryears of our training we had to study the use of ki
This was done by vision quest / almost like a sweat lodge inveteracy- WE than would use this training to heal self-
if we got an injury during the fight/ sparring master would use ki to heal as in other healing arts. but at any rate we all do have some within us but some are more in tune than others. its just a matter of time to develop self.

 

[Nevlyn]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

A quck story.
My wife suffers from back pain. One day while shopping her back pain was almost makeing her cry and she was haveing problems even walking, say nothing of holding the objects she was buying. She made it to the check out counter and was carefuly takeing things out of the basket when she felt a hand touch her in the small of the back. She said there was a feeling of warmth that flooded her body radiateing from where she was touched. all the pain was gone.
She turned to see an old Asain man looking at her, with what see called "old knowing and careing eyes". She bowed slightly and said thank you. She did not speak futher or draw more attention to the situation for as she put it, 'The peope with him did not look friendly"
Was it a Chi healing? I think so.
Shadow

The use of ki to releave pain and to help with healing does work, if we over do it at training or hurt ourselves the instructor usually performs kiatsu to help with the pain and healing...

There is a technique call kiatisu which is taught in Aikido. But there are other forms of ki healing which are:
Usui Shiki Reiki Ryoho
Jin Shin Do
Shiatsu
Kiatsu
Qi Gong

The following links will give you some more information on Ki healing
http://www.bodymindandmodem.com/Aikido/kiatsu.html
http://people.myplace.net.au/~aikido/kiatsu.htm
http://www.sumikiri.org/healingarts/healing.htm

 

[Shinzu]

no problem rich. sorry i misunderstood your post and congrats on your upcoming marriage. it's the best )

 

[tshadowchaser]

Nevlyn, Thanks for the links.
Now lets look at even another side of this topic. The old man not only knew what to to and how to do it, BUT he also knew that he could do so to her and that she would know what had happened, accecpt it, and not make a camotion(SP) in the store.
You ever walk by someone or have someone enter a room and know they studied a martial art and maybe even what art without ever looking a them?
Shadow
:asian:

 

[SET_Coo]

Check out Tai Chi Classics and The Power of Internal Martial Arts. Lots of info about this subject. I dont belive its just proper body mechanics, theres something more...

 

[D.Cobb]

I have believed in Chi for as long as I have been training in the martial arts. I even believe that at times I have got it just right and extended mine, in such a way that people a lot bigger than me were thrown through the air by a palm strike to the chest. All this aside, last weekend I saw a demonstration which just about blew my mind.
My instructor was talking about real world attacks, and forcing some of us to defend against whatever he chose to throw at us. One of the guys was afraid to hit him, and so he came to me and told me to hit him as hard as I could. After a short time, he turned around and got another guy to hit him anywhere he wanted on the front of his torso, whilst I did the same to his back. It just didn't seem to affect him at all.
I watched a video of it 2 days later, his face didn't even change. I asked him if it was possible to hurt him and he just laughed and told me it was "Iron Shirt". Now I can't speak for the other guy, but I can tell you that I hit hard. And I was putting everything I had into each and every punch.
If I ever had a doubt about chi, it was gone after this.
--Dave

:asian:

 

[chufeng]

I find it interesting that people use the term "belief" when discussing qi.

In some ways, it makes sense because it's existance is something that is very difficult to PROVE...sort of like proving God exists.

However, it certainly can be experienced...(the skeptics will say you are being hypnotized into believeing you "feel" something)... and a 5000 year old system of medicine (very foreign to Western medicine) is based on manipulating or influencing that elusive force called qi.

I KNOW qi exists...
I KNOW it can be manipulated...
I KNOW it can be used to hurt, and to heal...

Can I prove it? No I can't.

I KNOW (this goes beyond belief or faith) God exists...and I can't prove that either.

Because qi is both a force for good or harm, one really must get instruction from a qualified instructor when starting on the path of qigong...I've seen bad results in those who tried to force, or hurry, their training...patience is key.

Great topic...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[TkdWarrior]

Originally posted by chufeng


I KNOW qi exists...

wat's ur breathe?

I KNOW it can be manipulated...

breathe can be manipulated therre r at least 4 differents ways

I KNOW it can be used to hurt, and to heal...

just make it as improper breathing....proper breathing heals(without jerks/discontinuity/etc)

Can I prove it? No I can't.

don't need to prove
these r just my thoughts...i thougth u guys wouldn't mind

Was it a Chi healing? I think so.
Shadow

u know about reiki? it is that...but to me the asian looks like he was beyond materlistic level otherwise he wouldn't hav treated... or even could judged that ur wife is in back pain

-TkdWarrior-

 

[MinnieMin]

I don't know anything about qi, but just browsing here. When I read Shadow's post, I remember I had almost same experience 10 years ago when we lived in UCLA family housing in Los Angeles. One morning, my daughter woke up with an exstremely pain of her eyes and she cried. She doesn't get sick often and don't cry much either, but that morning, gosh, she got me totally scared. When we just got ready to take her to a hospital, a old chinese woman was in the outside of my door and asked what was going on. When she heard the story said no need to go to hospital because she can help her. I had heard she knew gong fu stuff and not really believed in her, but in that situation I just wanted to help my daughter. She asked my daughter to sit in the bed and she did something like we saw it in the movie; putting her hands together and rubbing, then pushing her hands on my daughter's back and telling my daughter to focus on her toes so she would push (don't remember what she said), but some kind of qi out from the toes. I was thinking, "oh no, you've got be joking". She did that for very short time and then gathered some energy or qi again by pushing her hands together and hovering her hands about 10 inches away from my daughter's feet. And guess what, my daughter stopped crying and got up wanted to go to school -- the pain was totally gone. I was there and watched everything. I don't know what and how she did it then, or now.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Minniemin,
a great story. I take it that your daughter had no more problems with her eye.
Did you ever see the lady again?
I have heard of a few other people who have had simular experences but most nevert say much out of fear of being rediculed by those who did not witness the event.
Another short experence
Some people just seem to radiate something. A friend and I where once was in a bus station in a strange town and he kept feeling that he was being watched. It didn't feel like he was about to be a victum , just that someone was observing him. He looked all over that place checking out everyone (he thought) but could not find anyone that seemed to be watching him. He finaly gave up and just got on his bus when it was time. The bus started pulling out of the station and we passed a older man sweeping up cigeret butts. The old man looked up smiled, waved and laughed. and my friend knew who had been watching. Was this chi , maybe not, but he radiated something when he wanted to. My friend only told me about this as we where going down the road because he said he felt foolish even talking about it.
Shadow

 

[Quick Sand]

When I was about 15 or 16 we did a Chi/Ki class in my martial arts class. Our Instructor had studied it for many years. Anyway I don't have time to explain how many different ways we experienced it that night but it was unbelieveable. I went home and tried to describe it to my father but he wouldn't believe a word of it.

Then about a year later he got his own chance. We were living in Ukraine at the time and he had a really bad knee so one the local guys he worked with brought him to a doctor. One of the things this doctor did was rub his hands together and hold them about and inch from my fathers knee. My dad said all of a sudden he could feel this extreme heat on his knee but the guy wasn't even touching him. He ended up going back to this doctor several times and had different treatments. Now my father believes too and he feels a lot better.

 

[MinnieMin]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

Minniemin,
a great story. I take it that your daughter had no more problems with her eye.
Did you ever see the lady again?
I have heard of a few other people who have had simular experences but most nevert say much out of fear of being rediculed by those who did not witness the event.
Another short experence
Some people just seem to radiate something. A friend and I where once was in a bus station in a strange town and he kept feeling that he was being watched. It didn't feel like he was about to be a victum , just that someone was observing him. He looked all over that place checking out everyone (he thought) but could not find anyone that seemed to be watching him. He finaly gave up and just got on his bus when it was time. The bus started pulling out of the station and we passed a older man sweeping up cigeret butts. The old man looked up smiled, waved and laughed. and my friend knew who had been watching. Was this chi , maybe not, but he radiated something when he wanted to. My friend only told me about this as we where going down the road because he said he felt foolish even talking about it.
Shadow

Thanks Shadow.
My daughter has no more eyes' problem since then and the lady was moved away after her son graduated from UCLA.
I was so much wanted to learn qi gong from her and she really wanted me to be her student, but this is another story.
Anyway, after she helped my daughter, she came my home often chatting with me, and then funny thing was happened. I was tearing when I was talking to her with no any reason but couldn't control my tear. I was angry with myself and felt so stupid but helpless till she told me it was her; she radiated something to me.
This post without my husband's help, hope it is understandable to read.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Minnimin,
No Problem I understood what you where saying and I think everyone else will also.
Its a shame you where never able to study with the lady. She was able to help your daughter and you had a first hand experence with the healing arts. Hopefuly this has encoraged you to try to find a teacher who can pass some of this knowledge to you. Just be careful of all the fakes and make belive people out there.
Shadow

 

[MinnieMin]

I wouldn't go out to seek a teacher but rather to meet this person by a chance, like that lady. Chinese call that "Yuan".

Thank you with respect,
Min :asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

If you don't believe in internal energy, why believe in external energy? Both are seen in everyday life. Internal energy isn't only used in times of emergency where you sometimes hear stories of old ladies lifting up cars.

Even in powerlifting, training the CNS is the first thing. Not necessarily true internal energy, but internal energy and external energy = balance. I'm not a Taoist, but I do believe in the ying yang to some extent. Both are dependent on each other.

 

[fanged_seamus]

My belief is more along the lines of Cthulhu's -- but since most people on this thread are stating their belief in chi/ki/etc., I thought I'd like to give a counterpoint.

With respect to all who believe in chi/ki, it is a matter of faith and anecdote, not proof of existence, much like faith in a religion. To my knowledge, no one has SCIENTIFICALLY proven the existence of chi/ki, and most of the claimed effects of chi/ki can be explained in other ways. Until I see objective, statistical proof of its existence, I do not accept it as real.

Again, to all of those who have stated their belief in chi/ki and its power, no disrespect to your beliefs is intended. I choose to hold myself to a different standard of proof, and thus do not believe in its existence.

Tad Finnegan

 

[chufeng]

Seamus,

Just because our science isn't up to the task (isn't sophisticated enough) to measure qi, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You are certainly welcome to "not believe"...

But, having personally experienced it, it goes beyond belief; it is a KNOWING...

Is that subjective? In a way, yes...but its effects can be observed by others...the part that becomes difficult is explaining "why."
There are many who refuse to accept the existence of certain things without "scientific" proof...anything I say, or do, won't change their minds...so I don't burn a lot of energy trying.

When you peel an onion, layer by layer, what do you find in the middle? NOTHING...it's just like that.

:asian:
chufeng