Can Students Fail Tests?

[bushidomartialarts]

Been thinkin' about tests and testing of late. I've never failed a student who took a test from me. There's plenty I've pulled aside and told to wait another month. But to my way of thinking, if a student gets up on test day unprepared...

That's the teacher's fault. There's no way the student should have to face the humiliation of doing poorly and not receving rank for their teacher's innatention and slipshod work.

Again, I've told lots of students to wait another month. But I don't fail tests. You could say that the 'test' is really an exhibition and celebration, but the student is tested for rank in each class?

Thoughts? Disagreements? Comments about my ancestors and personal hygeine?

 

[terryl965]

Yes I have failed some of my students, when you get a brain fart and just cannot remember you have got to fail and re-test them

 

[dragonswordkata]

I have to agree, to a point Sir. I never test a student till I know they know thier material, and they are comftable with it also. Why would someone set a student up to fail? I feel that a test is mostly in the students hands, they pass or fail on thier own merits. And I let them know this. I also stress that I believe in them and thier skills and that they should try to relax and do your best like in any normal class.

But what if that student simply gets over nervious and keeps making simple but critical mistakes threwout the test? I had a student do this just last weekend? I had to exsplore a few ideas such as A. Stop the test and have her test again at a later date B. Continue testing and let her,hopefully, workout the jitters C. Pass her, but as a honory purple belt, and have her re-test for that portion she had problems with. I chose B and it worked out once she settled down. I would love to hear other folks ideas. Thanks for raising this issue.

 

[dubljay]

I agree with Terry. Student's sometimes just fail. While it can be humiliating to fail it will present a crucial juncture for the student. Give up because it's too hard or train harder to prove that they can do it. Martial arts is not and should not be easy (I'm not saying you're giving away belts or anything like that) But you can only lead a student so far. At some point they have to take responsibility for themselves; and that should take place well before they are ready to test for black belt. For no matter how long you hold a student back to get them ready for that test, they will only pass it if they want to pass it. In many ways a test is more than demonstrating the technical skills, its a test of character of the student, how much do they work for it, how important is it to them. Either they will work harder or they will give up, and if they give up then martial arts may not be a good thing for them to persue.

Just my 2 cents

-Josh

 

[Blindside]

It isn't really a test if you can't fail. If it isn't a test, whats the pont? Call it a demo or an exhibition, but lets not lie if we know a student will pass.

Lamont

 

[Steel Tiger]

I think that, while it is important that you as a teacher know when a student is ready to be tested, it is equally important that the student know that there is a possibility of failing the test. If such is not the case then the test becomes almost meaningless.

At my school testing for early grades is done privately which removes a lot of the potential nervous tension. Later, more senior grades have public tests because it is important that the entire community of the school see and experience the difficulty of these tests so that they understand how much work their seniors have put in. Of course, the public nature of the test creates the nervous tension that the earlier tests are designed to offset.

 

[Gary Crawford]

Thanks for opening the subject! This can be a fine line to dance on every now and then. I agree with not testing anyone until they know their material well enough to pass tests,but sometimes with some students failing them,it's the only way to get their attention. IMHO, I prefere to test students in a private setting,especially with a student who hasn't put forth more than minimal effort. You can't just privatly test students who might not pass,it has to be a blanket policy. That's why I test mine privatly for the first three ranks. I test them when I think they are ready,but when the students or their parents think they are ready and I don't agree, I test them and fail them to make a point to them and their parents without humiliating them in front of their pears. After that, I have weeded out the one's who arn't serious about thier training and they are ready for group testing and nobody tests before they are ready to go through the ritual and pass.

 

[Kacey]

I agree with both sides: I will not allow a student to test who cannot pass, but they must perform to pass, and yes, I have had students fail testings because they got up and didn't try, or froze and didn't perform. It happens. Knowing you will pass makes testing meaningless; it becomes just another workout. Testing requires students to perform under stress - the stress of having an unfamiliar person telling them what to do (I don't test my own students; I test other instructors' students and they test mine - aside from increasing the stress level, it also gets me feedback on my instruction), of having family, friends, and cameras there to watch, of having to perform at their best from the beginning... all of those provide insight into a student's motivation, concentration, understanding, and mindset in a way not seen in a regular class.

 

[jks9199]

Been thinkin' about tests and testing of late. I've never failed a student who took a test from me. There's plenty I've pulled aside and told to wait another month. But to my way of thinking, if a student gets up on test day unprepared...

That's the teacher's fault. There's no way the student should have to face the humiliation of doing poorly and not receving rank for their teacher's innatention and slipshod work.

Again, I've told lots of students to wait another month. But I don't fail tests. You could say that the 'test' is really an exhibition and celebration, but the student is tested for rank in each class?

Thoughts? Disagreements? Comments about my ancestors and personal hygeine?

Yes, I've failed students. We don't have scheduled tests. Generally, if we're testing a student, we believe that they'll pass. Unfortunately, we've been let down a time or two.

But that's not our fault, in my opinion. The student has a responsibility to be prepared at all times for testing, in our system. We expect each student to be able to demonstrate each form they've learned, and remember the appropriate material, not just cram and regurgitate them on test day.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I can see how one can feel that a student failing is not ones fault. But don't we as teachers have something of a responsibility to not only present the material but to ensure that our students both understand and practise?

That is not to say that we should monitor them constantly and berate them for not training. We should be presenting such an attitude that will make students want to train and learn so that when a test comes along they are ready and willing to undertake it.

 

[Kacey]

I can see how one can feel that a student failing is not ones fault. But don't we as teachers have something of a responsibility to not only present the material but to ensure that our students both understand and practise?

That is not to say that we should monitor them constantly and berate them for not training. We should be presenting such an attitude that will make students want to train and learn so that when a test comes along they are ready and willing to undertake it.

And even so, students will fail. I observe students during class; hold pretestings; I invite other instructors in to provide additional feedback; and even so, students will fail. Others on this thread, and similar threads, have stated that testings are closed to spectators to avoid the stress of spectators; for myself, the stress of testing proves the mettle of the students. If they cannot perform under stress, such as that created by an audience, it becomes even less likely that they will be able to perform under other types of stress, such as actual self-defense situations. That is not meant to equate the two situations - actual self-defense is much more stressful than any situation I can create in a dojang - but I do the best I can to create stress within the testing situation, to teach students to perform under stress.

 

[bluemtn]

I haven't failed a test exactly, but I didn't immediately get a rank until I was able to perform something correctly. My instructor said, "you passed, but you need to work on this on your own", and he had me do it at the next class we had- no extra fees, was able to learn some things on my then new belt all before the re- performance. That's all I've ever seen happen. I think for me, I needed to do some mental work, if you catch my drift.

 

[Drac]

I failed my first test...It happens...

 

[Steel Tiger]

And even so, students will fail. I observe students during class; hold pretestings; I invite other instructors in to provide additional feedback; and even so, students will fail. Others on this thread, and similar threads, have stated that testings are closed to spectators to avoid the stress of spectators; for myself, the stress of testing proves the mettle of the students. If they cannot perform under stress, such as that created by an audience, it becomes even less likely that they will be able to perform under other types of stress, such as actual self-defense situations. That is not meant to equate the two situations - actual self-defense is much more stressful than any situation I can create in a dojang - but I do the best I can to create stress within the testing situation, to teach students to perform under stress.

I agree, the presence of an audience has beneficial effects even if they are not immediately obvious. My teacher not only preferred audiences, but encouraged them to be vocal during certain parts of the testing process, especially sparring.

In my opinion, a test should look to examine more than just clinical knowledge of technique, as you say, whether that be the student's character, inner resolve, or philosophical understanding.

 

[pstarr]

Yes, I've failed students - especially some who, against the better judgement of their seniors, weren't up to snuff. The exam requirements are there for a reason...

 

[tellner]

If there weren't a chance of failure it wouldn't be a test.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

i guess i'm a bit of a hippie that way. way i figure it, the test is the hours upon hours of class they go through and demonstration of competence over time.

someone made the point that one shouldn't call it a test if it's a demo or exhibition. i denifinitely see that point. thanks all for weighing in on what's turning out to be an interesting conversation.

 

[Carol]

I failed Kenpo a stripe test once. I got overheated and very dizzy and had to take myself off the mat. Later that week I had a private lesson with my instructor where we went over the old material as well as a bit of new material. At the end of the private he said that the review part of the lesson was my stripe test, then he awarded me my stripe.

 

[Cirdan]

Since our sensei don`t let us test until we are ready, students rarely fail but it can happen. Those that fail usually do so becauce they freeze and give up after a imperfect move instead of carrying on and giving the extra effort. Lower ranks messing up a kata or similar are usually given a second chanse immediately. I would say the test most of all is about your ability to focus and if you know the material by heart.

 

[Haze]

I failed my green belt test (goju ryu)

My instructor prepared me, was my own fault.
Just drew a blank part way through one of the kata.