Breakfalls of Judo/Jujutsu

Discussion in 'Jujutsu / Judo' started by Rat, Jul 20, 2018.

  1. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    If this has been done before apologies.


    Do the break falls in Judo work in the real world? By that i mean concrete, tiles, earth etc. Anyone have any experience of them being used/working outside of controlled conditions?
     
  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Better than getting your head smashed into the concrete
     
  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The following approach may be different from the Judo approach.

    When your body is in the air, sometime you don't know which part of your body will land first. When you fall, you will need to protect your head from hitting the ground. To prevent the back of your head from hitting the hard ground is much more important than anything else.



    Protect your head, protect your head, and still protect your head. Use your leg/legs to slap on the ground if you can.

     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
  4. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    A college I worked at had a Judo club. The sensei would take the group out to the parking lot every semester have have them roll and breakfall. The first time I saw them doing it, I had no idea who he was nor what they were doing. So I asked. The sensei said “what are the chances they’ll get attacked in a matted dojo? If they can’t fall and roll outside in the real world, there’s not much point in doing it.”

    So yes, it works on concrete. They’d get a bit of road rash and a few bumps and bruises, but nothing major.
     
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  5. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Learning to fall is a great exercise for a couple of reasons.
    1. it helps temper your body
    2. helps you to learn to control your movement if being thrown or tripped
    3. it allows you to be a good training partner by being one who can be thrown so your partner can practice throws
    4. your confidence in being able to take a throw goes up

    Do they work: yes the do.
    Trips, slips, sweeps, takedowns, and throws happen.
     
  6. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, they do.

    I've used breakfalls, rolls, and other ways of safely hitting the ground in a number of situations -- some sort of planned, many unplanned. Proper falling will protect you from major injury.
     
  7. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree with him. I frequently point out to students that the skill they're most likely to use to protect themselves isn't a punch, kick, throw -- or even shooting. It's falling without getting hurt...
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    The big slap I was taught in Judo (same as is used in most of NGA) for a side fall is hell on a hard surface - it actually stuns the hand pretty well, and can leave a bruise that's damned tender for a day or two. On anything but good mats, I change the fall. Where I can, I round out of it, turning it into a partial roll. Where I can't do that, I try to lead with the hand, rather than slapping with it. The front fall I was taught doesn't have any major issues on hard surfaces, though I'd rather do a feather fall if I can manage it. The back fall I learned in Judo, if it is done really well, is similar to one I've seen dancers use for high falls on stage and pavement, and it seems to work well for them. I've never used it enough to develop that kind of skill (the NGA back fall has a different focus, and is fine on pavement).
     
  9. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    Can you fill me in as to what that is?
     
  10. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    You learned that the big slap on a real hard surface is kinda counter productive lol.

    Good point though in looking for a different approach. The point imo is you learned the fall then realised that it had to be modified.

    Rat break falling is important as already said it will save your body from serious injury however I would suggest that you learn from a person that actually knows how to rather than try it out as you might hurt yourself and be careful of doing the feather fall as if you get it wrong it will hurt.

    I know from your other threads that you are very enthusiastic just be careful the guys on here can and will tell you how to do the falls (and they can do them as they were trained to do them as part of their arts and styles) please if you want to learn the break falls go to and study at a dojo that can teach them. Yes there are videos on how to but do bear in mind that most of them are done by yudansha (at least the ones I have seen anyway) and they should know how to do them lol.

    Don't get to ambitious lol doing and taking breakfalls. They can take a good while to perfect (and don't confuse breakfall with ukemi as technically that is different it may result in a breakfall but not necessarily) and again as has been said to you before don't get all frustrated if you go to a dojo that involves that and you don't get to do the big fancy looking falls as some are really (yes I will admit and I was an Aikidoka lol) for show and really depend on the Uke and nage as to if they can do them, a really good example was one of my favourite techniques Kotegaeshi lol yes it can be done big big circle and look very impressive (if both can perform and do the breakfall) and it can and does at times wow newbies and onlookers lol but in reality you do it much much shorter (small circle) and the breakfall is faster and has to be taken properly (yes more ukemi there) less injury ensues.

    I am not having a go just before you get into all the nitty gritty again go learn from a dojo that teaches please as watching vids and asking questions is good but it could get you hurt and umm as a beginner you won't know if your doing them right lol as a vid or a worded answer cannot do that
     
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  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Nihon Goshin Aikido (it's in my signature, but I don't think that shows if you're reading on your phone). It's a cousin art to Ueshiba's Aikido, also primarily derived from Daito-ryu, but with influence from Judo, Shotokan Karatedo, and some other bits.
     
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  12. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    It stings, sure... but I'd rather have a bruised or sore arm, than injuries. And, in my experience, falls more or less directly to the side aren't common unless they've been "aided." Most are really somewhere between back and side (slip on ice, slide on a loose carpet), or forward (trip). Like I said -- they work. Even learning to simply relax and not reach as you fall saves a lot of broken wrists... just like learning to tuck your chin protects the head.
     
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  13. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    That is key ... being all tense and tight your more likely to get hurt

    That takes time and effort to achieve and patience not watch you tube and ask questions and go for it lol
     
  14. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    It got the bits that most Aikido has kinda left out or as I said in another thread at its creation/inception call it as you will it was assumed that the students (and at that time they all did lol) already knew

    Rat please don't get into the whys and the rest of why it was left out or is not taught everywhere as you kinda don't need to know as it will turn into a history lesson and get way to complicated lol

    Just take it as @gpseymour knows where to strike and I do to as we were both taught how to ... you wanna learn go to a dojo and learn lol then ask questions lol
     
  15. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    Nah, just asking because Judos going to probably be where i learn breakfalls from or something influenced by it. Just wanted to feel out the waters if i needed to try and make a conscious decision to go somewhere to learn break falls or not.

    Edit: I have to ask, does BJJ do break falls? I know most of you might not know anything about them. The thought just crossed my mind.
     
  16. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    you will get a kick on the butt saying we don't know about break falls lol ...ummm we kinda do lol hence the info you been given

    Your gonna be a busy boy at last count your up to at least 6 arts your gonna learn lol
     
  17. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, we do cover breakfalls in BJJ, but they usually don't get as much practice time as they do in a Judo school.

    I think he was saying you might not know anything about BJJ, not about breakfalls.
     
  18. now disabled

    now disabled Master Black Belt

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    ok my appologies
     
  19. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Getting back to the original question, proper breakfalling technique is totally applicable to hard surfaces outside the dojo.

    I don't care for the hard slap. I think it's unnecessary and even counterproductive on a hard surface. The most important elements are to relax, exhale, avoid impact on bony surfaces (especially the head), and absorb the impact over as broad a surface area as possible. Rolling is good when the situation allows it, but frequently it does not.
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    They do work - I've just found that it's possible to use them without the slap when you have some control. If there's no control, a bruised hand is better than a concussion or broken hip.
     

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