Boy Scouts, Politics and Religion Discussion

[pgsmith]

Teaching homophobic discrimination doesn't seem like a great way to prepare young people for the 21st century.

Our volunteer leadership has elected to keep that policy in place.

Sounds to me like it's people that need to be changed, not necessarily the BSA, and I never once taught homophobic discrimination in all my years in Scouting. Perhaps you can create a better organization to take the place of Scouting, or are you just whining?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

"Everything was running along smoothly until some of the dads complained

Doesn't sound like BSA's really to blame for this. Sounds more like the parents in that particular troop are the ones who don't like that policy. As I said, in my troops, and the troops I'm familiar with, it is a non-issue.
and

Our volunteer leadership has elected to keep that policy in place.

HUZZAH!!! You now have a way to fix the problem, become a volunteer leader at a high level, or petition to them to scrap the policy! Maybe, just maybe, you'll have better luck changing the system there than here, trying to get other people to fix the problems you see for you. Unless you dont really care, and just like stirring up trouble :hmm:

 

[arnisador]

Sounds to me like it's people that need to be changed, not necessarily the BSA

It's official BSA policy. It seems to me like that should be changed. Is Scouting better for this man's expulsion?

Perhaps you can create a better organization to take the place of Scouting, or are you just whining?

I'm speaking out against discrimination. You're excusing it. If you're happy in an organization that has an official policy of banning people from its membership because they're gay, that's your choice.

 

[arnisador]

Doesn't sound like BSA's really to blame for this. Sounds more like the parents in that particular troop are the ones who don't like that policy.

I don't think you read it closely enough--the parents do like the discriminatory anti-gay policy, and requested that it be enforced to drive out the gay father.

trying to get other people to fix the problems you see for you. Unless you dont really care, and just like stirring up trouble :hmm:

They're free to discriminate against people who happen to be homosexual, or who are irreligious--the Supreme Court has upheld their right to do so. It's unfortunate to teach young kids to fear those who are different, though, and they certainly cede any moral highground by doing so. In a case like this the kids in that unit will know what happened--the adults bullied a gay man and kicked him out for being different and indeed because scout policy declares gayness bad. It's a poor lesson for a diverse society--but on the other hand, they will learn how to whittle, after all.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don't think you read it closely enough--the parents do like the discriminatory anti-gay policy, and requested that it be enforced to drive out the gay father.

That was a grammatical error on my part. Meant do, no idea why I wrote don't.

They're free to discriminate against people who happen to be homosexual, or who are irreligious--the Supreme Court has upheld their right to do so. It's unfortunate to teach young kids to fear those who are different, though, and they certainly cede any moral highground by doing so. In a case like this the kids in that unit will know what happened--the adults bullied a gay man and kicked him out for being different and indeed because scout policy declares gayness bad. It's a poor lesson for a diverse society--but on the other hand, they will learn how to whittle, after all.

Ok, 2 things. 1. If you really have a problem with it, then join the organization, and try to change it from the inside out. 2. please please please please tell me you don't think all they do is learn how to whittle. It is much more than that, but if it's a joke I wont go on a rant about it, can't tell through the internet sometimes.

 

[arnisador]

It was a joke about the whittling. I know it's highly variable and that some troops are really active and some mostly just hang out with a wide range in-between.

I wouldn't want to join an organization that endorses homophobia as a core policy. I don't associate with with bigots. Organizations have also been changed by outsiders pointing out the group's negative values. I hope the continued attention it receives for kicking out children who identify as gay or atheist will put some pressure on it to change.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Ok, thought it was, just making sure
And have you spoken to any troop leaders? I think you'll find 90% of the time, they're not bigots, and that 10% you'll find in any group, in BSA(not all boy scouts, just BSA) the 10% is just unfortunately in charge of official policy. However, it seems like I will not be able to convince you to give boy scouts a chance no matter what I say. So rather than continue this pointless arguing, I will say goodbye to this thread.

 

[arnisador]

Official policy dictates what happens. It's the org.'s statement of values. Those 90% (if accurate) are joining a discriminatory org. I don't doubt that there are benefits to doing so--but it still is an endorsement of the group's policy.

 

[Makalakumu]

If I was ever harassed for not following the anti gay policy, I would

 

[Makalakumu]

Let people know what is happening. In a lot of instances, this is all happening with people who don't want to make waves.

Sorry for the broken post. My phone glitched.

 

[bluewaveschool]

I find it odd that an organization that is so extremely dedicated to keeping open homosexuals out has such a lengthy history of cover ups for pedophiles. It seems to me that they are saying 'gays are monsters, stay out' while being perfectly fine with real monsters being in the club, as long as they keep it on the down low.

 

[granfire]

I find it odd that an organization that is so extremely dedicated to keeping open homosexuals out has such a lengthy history of cover ups for pedophiles. It seems to me that they are saying 'gays are monsters, stay out' while being perfectly fine with real monsters being in the club, as long as they keep it on the down low.

reminds me of a different organization with similar track record....

 

[arnisador]

Remarkably similar, yeah--and not entirely coincidental, as the same faith is at the root of the issue in both cases.

 

[Makalakumu]

Remarkably similar, yeah--and not entirely coincidental, as the same faith is at the root of the issue in both cases.

Look at the monsters over there!

 

[shesulsa]

Things are likely to rapidly degrade for BSA. They will either be forced to become a LDS organization or change their charter sometime within the next handful of years, no doubt.

The UPS Foundation posted the following on its site:

The UPS Foundation seeks to support organizations that are in alignment with our focus areas, guidelines, and non-discrimination policy. UPS and The UPS Foundation do not discriminate against any person or organization with regard to categories protected by applicable law, as well as other categories protected by UPS and The UPS Foundation in our own policies. These include, but are not limited to race, gender, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, gender identity, veteran or military status, pregnancy, age and religion.
​

UPS confirmed to GLAAD that under these guidelines, which UPS said have been in development for several months, organizations that are unable to attest to having a policy or practices that align with the Foundation’s non-discrimination policy will no longer be considered eligible for funding. Prior to The UPS Foundation’s non-discrimination language, UPS gave $167,000 to various Boy Scouts of America entities in 2010 and said there would not be a change to grant-making at that time according to an American Independent report in September 2012. UPS has consistently received high marks on the Human Rights Campaign's (HRC) Corporate Equality Index, an annual survey that rates U.S. corporations on their non-discrimination policies and practices toward LGBT employees and consumers.

READ THE FULL ARTICLE HERE

Oh the times ... they are a-changin' ....

 

[pgsmith]

Here's an interesting question that I've never seen addressed by any of the myriad folks that want BSA to change their policy. How would you handle camping?

Currently, camps are required to maintain separate men's and women's bathrooms, or have signage that can be prominently displayed so that members of the opposite sex do not have to worry about running into each other there. They are also required to have separate bathing facilities for men and women. So, do you now make three signs? Do you mark off a separate time for gays to use the shower facilities, or do you force every camp to build another set of showers?

Just some things that flitted through my head.

 

[WC_lun]

You do realize that there are already gays in the BSA? Just like there are already gays in the military already serving. Allowing gays to do so openly just changes if they are doing so...well openly. Signs won't need to be changed, nor will bathrroms. Just like they have not needed to be changed in the military, thousands of thousands of employers, or public facilities. I don't think anyone has to worry about going to take a shower or a piss and being ogled by the gays. Otherwise, you'd already know who was gay by who those ogling you every day when you did those things. They don't do it now, so I don't think it is something you will have to worry about.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm positive I've rolled with gays, showered with em, been in locker rooms with them, etc. Now, I can't be sure because only 1 time did I know the person I was wrestling was gay. Didn't bother me. Check my *** out all you want, the only thing I question is your sanity.

 

[Master Dan]

I'm positive I've rolled with gays, showered with em, been in locker rooms with them, etc. Now, I can't be sure because only 1 time did I know the person I was wrestling was gay. Didn't bother me. Check my *** out all you want, the only thing I question is your sanity.

Oh George not the live stock! what movie was that?

 

[elder999]

Oh George not the live stock! what movie was that?

Oh brother, where art thou?