"Boxing: The Martial Artist's Reality Check"

[ace]

I agree with Jdenz
Unless U are training for MMA
Boxers are in fighting condition

I train for MMA
& i still don't want to go
Toe to toe with a Boxer.
These guy spit teeth & keep coming.

Take it to the floor & break something.

 

[JDenz]

Even then if you are not in the ring who knows maybe they will come back for more. Boxing is defintily a tough tough sport

 

[7starmantis]

Ok, thats fine that you have your own opinions about boxers training habits as opposed to MAist. But you can't judge my personal training regime without participating in it. I live spar 4 days a week, all of them being bare knuckle. Boxers through alot of punches, that is very true, but why because someone practices boxing do people automaticaly assume they throw more than anyone else? I train with a very serious boxer once a week, he is a terrific fighter and boxer, but his training stops quite a bit before mine does. I'm jsut trying to point out that you can't stereotype ANYONE in ANY system.


7sm

 

[ace]

I agree it is not the Style
it's the fighter.

I do mostly Submisson Wrestling

Striking is good & it complaments
Grappling.

Boxers train to fight
Ive trained with Boxers
They are tuff
U hit them they get happy

Most Martial Artist ive met don't have a clue as to what
it takes to be a fighter.

Im not picking on anyone
It's not easy to be a fighter.

It's serious Sh**

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by ace

I agree it is not the Style
it's the fighter.

I do mostly Submisson Wrestling

Striking is good & it complaments
Grappling.

Boxers train to fight
Ive trained with Boxers
They are tuff
U hit them they get happy

Most Martial Artist ive met don't have a clue as to what
it takes to be a fighter.

Im not picking on anyone
It's not easy to be a fighter.

It's serious Sh**

Very true, however, I would have to add that boxers are conditioned to take hits in the head nad upper chest, but not neccesarily where they would allways get hit or kicked. I knee break is pretty much an ending move regardless of your sytle or training ability in my opinion.

7sm

 

[JDenz]

First of all I am not saying you in general "All I am saying is that a boxer with the equal number of years training is more likely to beat the MA with the same amount of training." of course there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[ace]

Thats y I have practise Mauy Thai.
Those guys are the tuffest SoB i've ever met.

I pre-fer Submisson Wrestling
It's not the same striking trama

Knees can be an end but
I count on nothing & Everything To win.

Submissons Are what i do best
But i cross train as
Much as i can

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by ace
I agree it is not the Style
it's the fighter.

I totally agree.

Originally posted by ace
Ive trained with Boxers
U hit them they get happy

My coach used to say that's when you know it's time to retire. When you like to get hit.

Originally posted by ace
Most Martial Artist ive met don't have a clue as to what
it takes to be a fighter.
Im not picking on anyone
It's not easy to be a fighter.
It's serious Sh**

Spoken like a true fighter.
:asian:

 

[JDenz]

I have seen alot of fights and seen a few people try the knee kick and I haven't seen it end a fight yet just MHO.

 

[JDenz]

GouRonin how did you post the quote like that?

 

[Zujitsuka]

This is not about how I train, you train, he trains, or she trains. It is about how most martial artists are not athletes. They do not do anywhere near the cardio and strength development that boxers do. Why? Because boxers know that they have to spar to gauge their progress while most traditional martial artists are not required to spar. I don't know how one can gauge their abilities without actually fighting.

I've seen traditional types fight in self-defense situations and when they fight, all of their technique goes out of the window. They look like an untrained fighter. On the other hand, I've seen boxers and wrestlers fight in self-defense/street situations and a hook is still a hook and a suplex is still a suplex.

If your kwoon, dojo, dojang, or gym has live sparring...EXCELLENT! However, I doubt that you'll be using lunge punches and horse stances.

Like ace said, most martial artists don't have a clue what it takes to be a fighter.

Of course, as I said previously, people take up martial arts for different reasons other than fighting/self-defense. That is fine as long as they don't consider themselves a fighter.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Zujitsuka

This is not about how I train, you train, he trains, or she trains. It is about how categorically most martial artists are not athletes. The do not do anywhere near the cardio and strength development that boxers do. Why? Because boxers know that they have to spar to gauge their progress while most traditional martial artists are not required to spar.

I've seen traditional types fight and when they fight, all of their techniqe goes out of the window. They look like an untrained fighter. On the other hand, I've seen boxers and wrestlers fight in self-defense/street situations and a hook is still a hook and a suplex is still a suplex.

If your kwoon, dojo, dojang, or gym has live sparring...EXCELLENT! However, I doubt that you'll be using lunge punches and horse stances.

Like ace said, most martial artists don't have a clue what it takes to be a fighter.

Of course, as I said previously, people take up martial arts for different reasons other than fighting/self-defense.

:rofl: I think you have stereotyped yourself as a bigot. :rofl:

Most MAist in my school are in better shape then alot of pro athletes. They do extensive training regiments and in fact, I do not know many athletes at all that run 10 miles a day like every one of our advanced students do. Out 1st Black Level must fight other advanced students for one hour straight then fight out Sifu for another hour straight. Thats just half of the test. I do not know many athletes boxers or MAist that can fight full speed for two hours straight, do you? Traditional MAist are not understood that is why people who do not have the knowledge think they do not fight. Maybe the McDojo's don't, but be careful making that statement around serious athletes that train in traditional systems.
And yes, I use quite a few techniques in real situations including horse stance.


7sm

PS: I would say take a few classes with an experienced traditional MAist. You will begin to see what I am talking about.

 

[Zujitsuka]

Take it easy with the name-calling my man. This forum is to exchange info and to express opinions with decorum, so please mind your manners. I have always addressed everyone with absoulute respect and will continue to do so.

Neither the article or my posts asserted that ALL traditional martial artists are limited to forms and do not spar. I have trained with bare-knuckle Karate guys so I know better than that.

Good for you and your school that you guys train hard and realistically. I salute you for that. Most traditional schools do not. This is a fact. There is too much stop and go to be considered hard or realistic.

If the shoe doesn't fit, you don't have to wear it. So don't take it personally.

 

[JDenz]

Are you kidding me? Do you really think there are that many martial artests who are in better shape then pro athletes? There is no way. I understand the point you are trying to make. I am not saying that blackbelts are not in shape but there is no way that they have that kind of conditioning and power. I come from a wrestling bakground and I haven't seen one person in the kind of shape I am in and I don't even think I am in wrestling shape anymore.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by JDenz
GouRonin how did you post the quote like that?

Use the quote button on the response.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Most MAist in my school are in better shape then alot of pro athletes.

I think you're delusional. You have to be kidding me. If they are, why are they not pro athletes?

Originally posted by 7starmantis
They do extensive training regiments and in fact, I do not know many athletes at all that run 10 miles a day like every one of our advanced students do.

You're kidding me right? You're not serious. Pro athletes scientifically tailor their training to their sport. This is ALL THEY DO. In fact 10 miles a day is something my coach used to ask all his fighters to do minimum. Come on. We were amateur!

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Out 1st Black Level must fight other advanced students for one hour straight then fight out Sifu for another hour straight. Thats just half of the test.

That is a test. A one time thing. Anyone who spends every day fighting for a minimum of 2 hours and then training basics and such would be a killer. You're confusing daily work with testing.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
I do not know many athletes boxers or MAist that can fight full speed for two hours straight, do you?

No. Because boxers would have put them out way before then. If you're going for 2 hours then you're not going full out with intention to put them out of a fight. I have never seen a fight in any form that went full out for 2 hours with no break. The human body can't maintain that.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Traditional MAist are not understood that is why people who do not have the knowledge think they do not fight. Maybe the McDojo's don't, but be careful making that statement around serious athletes that train in traditional systems.

Make up your mind. You just claimed earlier that traditional serious MA are in better shape than pro athletes and now you claim traditional MA ARE athletes? Jeez, no wonder you're misunderstood.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
And yes, I use quite a few techniques in real situations including horse stance.

I'm sorry about your misfortune.

Originally posted by 7starmantis
PS: I would say take a few classes with an experienced traditional MAist. You will begin to see what I am talking about.

Unless you're talking Judo...I just can't see it. Even then, the conditions you're describing are sounding of german n@zi supersoldier experiments.

I think you better call the gov't because there is a war brewing in the middle east that sounds like they could use your school's help.

 

[Damian Mavis]

The message here is don't generalise. 7starmantis you also have to accept that most martial arts schools suck for actual fighting skills. Just because your school and my school don't doesn't mean most are absolutely delusional in their ability. This topic is always going to tick people off, just keep in mind everyone that generalising is ignorant and arrogant.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Zujitsuka]

Originally posted by 7starmantis

Most MAist in my school are in better shape then alot of pro athletes. They do extensive training regiments and in fact, I do not know many athletes at all that run 10 miles a day like every one of our advanced students do.

10 miles per day, huh? That is good for a marathon runner but I don't think that sports science sees this type of cardio training as being extremely beneficial to combat athletes. I keep reading and hearing about H.I.I.T. training.

Also, do these guys work and/or have personal lives? That is a lot of training time.

And yes, I use quite a few techniques in real situations including horse stance.

You don't mean a stationary horse stance do you?


PS: I would say take a few classes with an experienced traditional MAist. You will begin to see what I am talking about.

Yes, I have trained with a few traditional bare-knuckle karate types and a few Kung-Fu stylists. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by JDenz

Are you kidding me? Do you really think there are that many martial artests who are in better shape then pro athletes? There is no way. I understand the point you are trying to make. I am not saying that blackbelts are not in shape but there is no way that they have that kind of conditioning and power. I come from a wrestling bakground and I haven't seen one person in the kind of shape I am in and I don't even think I am in wrestling shape anymore.

Well, I'm glad you think so highly of yourself. I'm not talking about blackbelts, we don't have belts in my system so thats irelevent, I'm talking about poerson to person, I'm not generalizing it to any sect. So what exactly is different from a pro athlete and an athlete that trains the same way but doesn't make money for it?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by GouRonin

I think you're delusional. You have to be kidding me. If they are, why are they not pro athletes?

Ever seen a proffesional 7 Star Preying Mantis practitioner? Oh yeah, they are called Sifu's. Just because you can make money at something doesn't mean thats what you will do. I have a degree in vocal performance, but I'm not a singer, does that confuse you too?

Originally posted by GouRonin
That is a test. A one time thing. Anyone who spends every day fighting for a minimum of 2 hours and then training basics and such would be a killer. You're confusing daily work with testing.

I think your confusing your training regime for ours. To test on something and pass you have to have done it quite often in the past. We don't just pull a test out of our ****, if your testing that level you are expected to perform at that level at any given time.

Originally posted by GouRonin

No. Because boxers would have put them out way before then. If you're going for 2 hours then you're not going full out with intention to put them out of a fight. I have never seen a fight in any form that went full out for 2 hours with no break. The human body can't maintain that.

If you have limitations on your body you will most certainly be unable to break them. The human body can deffinatly maintain it, and I assure you I have seen it done. It was completely full speed the entire time, that is the difference in the level of training an "amature" and a "pro" would be doing.

Originally posted by GouRonin

Make up your mind. You just claimed earlier that traditional serious MA are in better shape than pro athletes and now you claim traditional MA ARE athletes? Jeez, no wonder you're misunderstood.

Um, did you actualy read what you just typed? I never said traditional MAist are in better shape then pro athletes, I said these specific MAist were in better condition than most pro athletes. and you don't consider yourself and athlete? I'm sorry. MAist are athletes, I didn't claim MAist were pro athletes, you not even making sense now man.

Originally posted by GouRonin
I think you better call the gov't because there is a war brewing in the middle east that sounds like they could use your school's help.

:rofl: :rofl:

Wow, I'm sory you do not take your training as serious as we do, but thats the beauty of MA, people take it for what they want.


7sm

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Zujitsuka
Most MAist in my school are in better shape then alot of pro athletes. They do extensive training regiments and in fact, I do not know many athletes at all that run 10 miles a day like every one of our advanced students do.

10 miles per day, huh? That is good for a marathon runner but I don't think that sports science sees this type of cardio training as being extremely beneficial to combat athletes. I keep reading and hearing about H.I.I.T. training.

Also, do these guys work and/or have personal lives? That is a lot of training time.

And yes, I use quite a few techniques in real situations including horse stance.

You don't mean a stationary horse stance do you?


PS: I would say take a few classes with an experienced traditional MAist. You will begin to see what I am talking about.

Yes, I have trained with a few traditional bare-knuckle karate types and a few Kung-Fu stylists. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Our circle of friends are pretty much our training buddies, so that takes care of our ersonal lives.
I think cardio training is extremely imnportant for fighting, you can't run out of steam in the middle of a fight. Um, no I do not mean stationary horse stance, but I have droped to horse stance for a block or punch.

7sm