bone toughening

[Elfan]

None of those silling bags, I like hitting people ;-)

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by chufeng

Most fractures will heal if given enough time to mend.
Most bones will lay more bone down when under stress...

However, if you have a fracture and continue to reinjure it, it will probably not mend and become a source for chronic inflammation.

"microfractures" are probably not even noticed by most folks...yeah the bone is a little sore, but that is because you've been training, right?

So, the area doesn't get a chance to heal as most folks just keep pounding away at the injured area...

If you rest it, though, (about six weeks) it will heal.

:asian:
chufeng

how much pounding until the fracture becomes permanent? and what kind of pounding, heavy bags or just pads

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by chufeng

Most fractures will heal if given enough time to mend.
Most bones will lay more bone down when under stress...
If you rest it, though, (about six weeks) it will heal.

:asian:
chufeng

No, not quite. If there is a frature the bone wil have been permantly damaged. It's true that the bone will grow together, but the bone material bywich the bone grows together, is of another consistance than the rest of the bone.

What happens is when you have a material that has a different micro structure, is that stress on the material is strong/hard on the area ( the area around were the bone was broken). On micro fractures, you'll just be getting worse and worse, each time you heal. Even though you've "healed".

Worse is it in a joint, because the surface of were you knuckles are, are a bare part of the joint. With this I mean that this area is were the finger joint moves. It has to be smooth to be without pain or problems of locking. If you get a micro fracture here, there will always be a knick in the smooth area. It will slowly chick away in your joint. In the end you could end up with arthritis (sp?).

I know this is a little bit religon. But I don't mind people doing it. They should just know the possible consequenses. Just like smoking and drinking. Just like that not alle smokers get lung cancer, som people don't have problems when the get old. But do you want to find out when your 40 or 50, and not be able to use your hands to the extent you want to?

/Yari

 

[chufeng]

"how much pounding until the fracture becomes permanent?"

Good question...and I don't have an answer for it...everyone is different...some people can run 7 miles everyday without problems...others develop stress fractures in their lower legs, ankles, or feet when they run as little as two miles a day...

If I knew the answer to this question, I'd become very wealthy in a short period of time...but sadly, I don't know the answer.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[chufeng]

Yari,

I tried to follow what you were saying, but you lost me.

You said: "No, not quite. If there is a frature the bone wil have been permantly damaged. It's true that the bone will grow together, but the bone material bywich the bone grows together, is of another consistance than the rest of the bone.

What happens is when you have a material that has a different micro structure, is that stress on the material is strong/hard on the area ( the area around were the bone was broken). On micro fractures, you'll just be getting worse and worse, each time you heal. Even though you've "healed".

Worse is it in a joint, because the surface of were you knuckles are, are a bare part of the joint. With this I mean that this area is were the finger joint moves. It has to be smooth to be without pain or problems of locking. If you get a micro fracture here, there will always be a knick in the smooth area. It will slowly chick away in your joint. In the end you could end up with arthritis (sp?)."


Truth is, fractured areas, when allowed to heal, are oftentimes stronger than the surrounding bone...this is because of the EXTRA calcium laid down to effect a repair...BUT, if you don't allow healing to occur, then you have a problem...

I think we are both saying the same thing, but are approaching it from different angles.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by chufeng

"how much pounding until the fracture becomes permanent?"

Good question...and I don't have an answer for it...everyone is different...some people can run 7 miles everyday without problems...others develop stress fractures in their lower legs, ankles, or feet when they run as little as two miles a day...

If I knew the answer to this question, I'd become very wealthy in a short period of time...but sadly, I don't know the answer.

:asian:
chufeng

ive never heard of leg fractures from running....hmmm, thanks:asian:

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by chufeng

Yari,

I tried to follow what you were saying, but you lost me.

You said: "No, not quite. If there is a frature the bone wil have been permantly damaged. It's true that the bone will grow together, but the bone material bywich the bone grows together, is of another consistance than the rest of the bone.

What happens is when you have a material that has a different micro structure, is that stress on the material is strong/hard on the area ( the area around were the bone was broken). On micro fractures, you'll just be getting worse and worse, each time you heal. Even though you've "healed".

Worse is it in a joint, because the surface of were you knuckles are, are a bare part of the joint. With this I mean that this area is were the finger joint moves. It has to be smooth to be without pain or problems of locking. If you get a micro fracture here, there will always be a knick in the smooth area. It will slowly chick away in your joint. In the end you could end up with arthritis (sp?)."


Truth is, fractured areas, when allowed to heal, are oftentimes stronger than the surrounding bone...this is because of the EXTRA calcium laid down to effect a repair...BUT, if you don't allow healing to occur, then you have a problem...

I think we are both saying the same thing, but are approaching it from different angles.

:asian:
chufeng

thats what i thought also, that the bones that are healed grow thicker

 

[chufeng]

MuayThai...

You posted:
"ive never heard of leg fractures from running....hmmm, thanks"

The fractures are called strees fractures. I've seen them in the heel bone (calcaneus) and in the lower part of the leg (tibia and fibula)...they develop because the stressors put on them are acute (high impact in a short time)...

In the military, we see this fracture fairly frequently (less now than in the 70s because of our understanding of the cause)...

The same type of fracture will occur in the hand or wrist with sudden increases in stress in those areas (like a beginner pounding the snot out of a heavy bag before he understands how to make a proper fist)...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by chufeng

Yari,

I tried to follow what you were saying, but you lost me.

..........

I think we are both saying the same thing, but are approaching it from different angles.

:asian:
chufeng

My english isn't that good, so my point isn't always that easy to tell.

It's true that were the fracture is the bone is harder, but hte area between the fracture and non-fracture is "weakend". Take a lollipop stick. It looks like a firm straight through stick. The tree is one peice. If you make a notch in it, and try to break the stick it will probably break were the notch is.

The oppesite is also tru. If you take som tape, and tape an area, and try and break the stick, it'll break right beside the tape.

The tape represents the broken bone that has healed.

NOw some people will say that if you break all the bone, and just grow "tape", ist should be hard. But no, the structure of the bone is harder, but more brittle. In small area's you'll no notice it, but over larer areas it wouldn't, plus that the growth will not be 'harmonious', and the micro structure will be uneven. Uneven micro structure give s at bigger chance of fracture.....

Now I'm talking to much.

/Yari

 

[sammy3170]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson

so what your saying is for us martial artist, who kick heavy bags and get our shins toughend, we will all notice side effects when we're 50?

Kicking the heavy bag alone won't toughen your shins that much or cause any long term damage. Kicking harder things and rolling a rolling pin up and down your shins can. My instructor has seen many kickboxers and the likes suffer the consequences later in life. If you're thinking of becoming a ring fighter you don't have a choice and will have to toughen your body. If your not then it is unnecessarilty risky.

Cheers
Sammy

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by Yari

My english isn't that good, so my point isn't always that easy to tell.

It's true that were the fracture is the bone is harder, but hte area between the fracture and non-fracture is "weakend". Take a lollipop stick. It looks like a firm straight through stick. The tree is one peice. If you make a notch in it, and try to break the stick it will probably break were the notch is.

The oppesite is also tru. If you take som tape, and tape an area, and try and break the stick, it'll break right beside the tape.

The tape represents the broken bone that has healed.

NOw some people will say that if you break all the bone, and just grow "tape", ist should be hard. But no, the structure of the bone is harder, but more brittle. In small area's you'll no notice it, but over larer areas it wouldn't, plus that the growth will not be 'harmonious', and the micro structure will be uneven. Uneven micro structure give s at bigger chance of fracture.....

Now I'm talking to much.

/Yari

are u talking about an imbalance in bone density? becuase i dont think the density will be so different that it will break at a differetnt place due to the imbalance