Bin Laden is dead

[Tez3]

see this is what happens when Americans pretend to give a crap what the rest of the world thinks. I would rather we be unapologetic about it. He deserved to die, I dont care how it happened, it did and now its over, move on.

You don't know however if the unknown woman who died deserved to die.
I think when your country interferes so much with the rest of the world ie give Bin Laden money to fight the Russians, support Saddam, invade Grenada, interfere with South American and even Italian elections etc etc you probably will have the rest of the world thinking you are possibly the most dangerous people on this planet. When I was at military staff college in the days of the Cold war the third World War scenerios always had the USA strarting it not China or the USSR simply because you can't stop interfering with other counties and that makes you very very dangerous.
Yes I understand you wish they wouldn't and would like to go back to being isolated but the fact is you aren't and you have to live with that as we all do.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

You don't know however if the unknown woman who died deserved to die.
I think when your country interferes so much with the rest of the world ie give Bin Laden money to fight the Russians, support Saddam, invade Grenada, interfere with South American and even Italian elections etc etc you probably will have the rest of the world thinking you are possibly the most dangerous people on this planet. When I was at military staff college in the days of the Cold war the third World War scenerios always had the USA strarting it not China or the USSR simply because you can't stop interfering with other counties and that makes you very very dangerous.
Yes I understand you wish they wouldn't and would like to go back to being isolated but the fact is you aren't and you have to live with that as we all do.

yes we are very dangerous. The most dangerous country on the planet.. thats the point.
the rest of the world can talk all it wants, but if any country really steps out of line, the US will crush them. Everyone knows this, hence the new war with these groups like Al Qaeda... So guess what, if countries are too weak or stupid to make sure Al Qaeda is not operating in their borders, then we will go in and end it when we find it happening. The rest of the world can complain all it wants it is not going to change that. The rest of the world can gripe and complain and try to pretend they have power, and unfortunately the current political climate in America seems to want to support this ridiculous behavior and apologetic approach to world politics. Its asenine. If we were really sorry we wouldn't do it in the first place. If we cared what the rest of the world thought we would have asked you for permission to do it to begin with. If we were worried about the consequences we would have not done it. Do I sound cocky?? Ya I know I do, but its the most honest answer and closest to the truth you are going to get.
also I like the Irony in a Brit telling me that we interfere to much with the rest of the world ROFLMAO.. Pot... Kettle... Kettle....Pot... HULLO

 

[billc]

As a supporter of capitalism, I just wish I had the American flag concession in the islamic countries, I'd have made a killing.

 

[yorkshirelad]

i like the irony in a brit telling me that we interfere to much with the rest of the world roflmao.. Pot... Kettle... Kettle....pot... Hullo

qtf!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Tez, you have to understand, Osama had to die, he had to die right then and there. After all, the formality of an official trial before the execution was a real PR disaster with Saddam. Now you people in the UK better take care of your own terrorist issues, lest you wake up to find Dick Cheney holding a tall glass of water over Gnarley Charlies head while The Donald screams "Where weere ya burne!"
(thats sarcasm)

On a serious note, Grenada was legit. But there's no worry about "massive US penis shaking" as our CiC is hell bent on being the "Community Organizer" to the world, rather than taking an actual aggressive posture, leaving situations like Libya where the world sits and waits while the US sits and waits.

Me, I just enjoy the interwebs and the arguments here.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

As a supporter of capitalism, I just wish I had the American flag concession in the islamic countries, I'd have made a killing.

Ok, I'll agree with you there. Me too. I'd hold a fire sale.

 

[shesulsa]

What the President did was great! It was balsy! It was courageous! If anyone says otherwise, it's because their ideology has blinded them! Obama as one of his campaign promises vowed to hunt bin Laden where-ever he may be and he came through. I am by no means an Obama fan in general, but the moment I heard the initial press conference, I was immensley proud of him.Waterboarding worked and it worked as it is intended to work. No-one gave up valuable information when being waterboarded, that's not how it works. The individual is asked questions that the interrogator already knows the answers to when the individual in question is being waterboarded. When the idividual eventually breaks, they begin to give the truthful answers to these questions. After the coersed interrogations are stopped the interrogator will continue to aske questions that he already knows the answers to, until he is satified that he can then gain valuable previously unknown intel. The method worked.In short, I am proud of President Obama for going into a foreign country's souvreign territory, without authorization (suppossedly), to execute a piece of **** who ordered thousands of US citizens dead. I am also proud of the previous administration's tactics that lead to the intel that lead to the location of UBL. Good job lads!!

I haven't seen any relatively unbiased source support the notion that the intel key in leading to OBL's location was obtained from Gitmo. If you have some please provide it, but don't waste your time linking me to a fascist righty rag.

This assassination, in my opinion has opened Pandora's box. Everyone is now fair game anywhere any time and in any country.

While I believe the target might be trained a bit more on us again right now, I don't necessarily think we have opened a box we hadn't already opened, what with prosecuting nazi fascists 70 years down the pike, finding, trying and executing Saddam Hussein, etcetera. We've been getting away with a lot for a long time. OBL, on the other hand, was one of the richest men in the world. It takes money to **** people up.

some people only seem to understand terror. Do you really think a terrorist, an extremist, someone who is so dedicated to ending our existence that they will give their own lives will actually react in the way we want to anything else? Maybe we need to be extra nice and say pleaseeeeeee
ummm ya that will work..
:rofl:

And I guess no matter how many people who have been tortured that say they would lie and told you they **** gold to get the torture to stop would skew your view on that eh? Even the fact that our very own government trains spies and special agents to cope with torture doesn't mean other nations do the same and we have the magic wand that negates the possibility that others could lie to us during torture, eh?

None of that matters because you find it comforting that with all the suffering and death and disfigurement and other ongoing horrors Al Qaeda thrust upon us that the individuals at Gitmo get waterboarded and spout ****. Their suffering gives you comfort because we suffered and thus, that makes it all okay, right?

And that's not an emotional reaction that has been fostered in any way to help certain people justify certain actions that by definition remove our status as a human rights nation, right?

*shakes head*

So ... if it's okay to torture people for information which will likely be false information anyway ... is it okay for Americans to be tortured for information that would most certainly be lies anyway? Since, you know, we killed a BUNCH of people over there and stuff.

 

[yorkshirelad]

I haven't seen any relatively unbiased source support the notion that the intel key in leading to OBL's location was obtained from Gitmo. If you have some please provide it, but don't waste your time linking me to a fascist righty rag.
.

Is Leon Panetta good enough for you? Btw, did you take me off your ignore list? I've missed you!

 

[Tez3]

yes we are very dangerous. The most dangerous country on the planet.. thats the point.
the rest of the world can talk all it wants, but if any country really steps out of line, the US will crush them. Everyone knows this, hence the new war with these groups like Al Qaeda... So guess what, if countries are too weak or stupid to make sure Al Qaeda is not operating in their borders, then we will go in and end it when we find it happening. The rest of the world can complain all it wants it is not going to change that. The rest of the world can gripe and complain and try to pretend they have power, and unfortunately the current political climate in America seems to want to support this ridiculous behavior and apologetic approach to world politics. Its asenine. If we were really sorry we wouldn't do it in the first place. If we cared what the rest of the world thought we would have asked you for permission to do it to begin with. If we were worried about the consequences we would have not done it. Do I sound cocky?? Ya I know I do, but its the most honest answer and closest to the truth you are going to get.
also I like the Irony in a Brit telling me that we interfere to much with the rest of the world ROFLMAO.. Pot... Kettle... Kettle....Pot... HULLO

I'm telling you you interfere too much? Did I say it was too much? did I say you shouldn't?
I'm pointing out that if you interfere you have to take what comes with it. Stop taking things so personally and as if everything is a criticism against you.
I don't care whether you care, I was thinking more about how your own citizens feel about this all and how they see it.

 

[billc]

actually, they didn't appear to have waterboarded people at gitmo, it was at the C.I.A. secret prisons in various countries.

I remember reading Stephen Ambrose's book D-Day. One of the stories, I think it was about the british but it could have been the american paratroopers, was about the paratroopers behind the lines before the invasion. The paratrooper kicked in the door of a building to find a mess hall filled with germans eating breakfast. He sprayed the room and then tossed in a grenade. He didn't try to capture them, he didn't hold them for interogation, he sprayed the room with his weapon and killed everyone he could. the assault on bin laden is no different. They obviously didn't kill everyone since at least one of bin laden's wives is still alive. That is a good thing, it shows they only killed where necessary, and bin laden is a definite necessary.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

And I guess no matter how many people who have been tortured that say they would lie and told you they **** gold to get the torture to stop would skew your view on that eh? Even the fact that our very own government trains spies and special agents to cope with torture doesn't mean other nations do the same and we have the magic wand that negates the possibility that others could lie to us during torture, eh?

So ... if it's okay to torture people for information which will likely be false information anyway ... is it okay for Americans to be tortured for information that would most certainly be lies anyway? Since, you know, we killed a BUNCH of people over there and stuff.

torture of certain types I have no problem with. Waterboarding directly led to UBLs death. It got us the info we wanted. It worked. Claim all you want, the information gathered was TRUE, and got us the objective. You can't argue that.

no its not ok for Americans to be tortured, we have rights granted to us that forbid it.
non american aggresives who want to end us? no such rights.

 

[yorkshirelad]

And I guess no matter how many people who have been tortured that say they would lie and told you they **** gold to get the torture to stop would skew your view on that eh? Even the fact that our very own government trains spies and special agents to cope with torture doesn't mean other nations do the same and we have the magic wand that negates the possibility that others could lie to us during torture, eh?

None of that matters because you find it comforting that with all the suffering and death and disfigurement and other ongoing horrors Al Qaeda thrust upon us that the individuals at Gitmo get waterboarded and spout ****. Their suffering gives you comfort because we suffered and thus, that makes it all okay, right?

And that's not an emotional reaction that has been fostered in any way to help certain people justify certain actions that by definition remove our status as a human rights nation, right?

*shakes head*

So ... if it's okay to torture people for information which will likely be false information anyway ... is it okay for Americans to be tortured for information that would most certainly be lies anyway? Since, you know, we killed a BUNCH of people over there and stuff.

This whole post is hog wash! You have no idea how the process of enhanced interrogation works! You just concoct scenarios from pieced together nonsense you've read on Move On.org or seen on MSNBC. I hear they're hiring at Media Matters. With nonsense like this you'll be Managing Editor in no time!

 

[Tez3]

Tez, you have to understand, Osama had to die, he had to die right then and there. After all, the formality of an official trial before the execution was a real PR disaster with Saddam. Now you people in the UK better take care of your own terrorist issues, lest you wake up to find Dick Cheney holding a tall glass of water over Gnarley Charlies head while The Donald screams "Where weere ya burne!"
(thats sarcasm)

On a serious note, Grenada was legit. But there's no worry about "massive US penis shaking" as our CiC is hell bent on being the "Community Organizer" to the world, rather than taking an actual aggressive posture, leaving situations like Libya where the world sits and waits while the US sits and waits.

Me, I just enjoy the interwebs and the arguments here.

Hey I support hunting down the Nazi war criminals which many of you don't, I supported hunting down the killers at the Munich Olympics, my opinion isn't that he shouldn't have been killed. It seems though that many can't take a step back and view this action objectively. I realise it's an emotive subject but stepping back and looking at it then discussing it like adults seems a step too far. It always turns into a personal argument and if it's not' if it wasn't for us you'd be speaking grman' it's 'the irony of the Brits telling us anything'. Well this Brit isn't 'telling' anyone anything just pointing out what the media said and it's not just the 'foreigners' that it concrns. If there's a backlash to this it will also be in America.

As for Libya we sent the RAF, the Navy and the SAS, can't say that's just waiting. Btw the SAS were formed in Libya back in the last war as the LRDG.

 

[shesulsa]

This whole post is hog wash! You have no idea how the process of enhanced interrogation works! You just concoct scenarios from pieced together nonsense you've read on Move On.org or seen on MSNBC. I hear they're hiring at Media Matters. With nonsense like this you'll be Managing Editor in no time!

I frequent neither newssource. I *did* post links to conservative shock jocks who were waterboarded who admitted they would lie to make it stop. Concoct? You just like an excuse to use the second syllable.

Personal attack much? OH yeah! That's why I put you on ignore ... that and your ignorant rightist spew.

Buh-bye ... again!

 

[Tez3]

I frequent neither newssource. I *did* post links to conservative shock jocks who were waterboarded who admitted they would lie to make it stop. Concoct? You just like an excuse to use the second syllable.

Personal attack much? OH yeah! That's why I put you on ignore ... that and your ignorant rightist spew.

Buh-bye ... again!

Yep, me too.

 

[yorkshirelad]

Hey I support hunting down the Nazi war criminals which many of you don't, I supported hunting down the killers at the Munich Olympics, my opinion isn't that he shouldn't have been killed. It seems though that many can't take a step back and view this action objectively. I realise it's an emotive subject but stepping back and looking at it then discussing it like adults seems a step too far. It always turns into a personal argument and if it's not' if it wasn't for us you'd be speaking grman' it's 'the irony of the Brits telling us anything'. Well this Brit isn't 'telling' anyone anything just pointing out what the media said and it's not just the 'foreigners' that it concrns. If there's a backlash to this it will also be in America.

As for Libya we sent the RAF, the Navy and the SAS, can't say that's just waiting. Btw the SAS were formed in Libya back in the last war as the LRDG.

I thought that it was the LRDP, but I could be wrong! Yes, a Brit berating the US for medalling in the Middle East is a tad hypocritical! Just saying.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I did a small survey.
Asked 10 people the following:
How long would I have to waterboard you, before you confessed to stealing the Death Star plans?
In 5 cases I had to describe what waterboarding is.
Funny thing.

All 10 people said they'd confess.

Guess that means I know 10 people wanted by Lord Vader right?
Because it's an accurate way of getting information?

Yeah.

Anyone who supports the discredited idea of torture, you haven't got much credibility here.

Mind you, I have no issues with a dead Bin Laden.
Just some of the means.

I also have no issue with the strike that killed him.
Even if it was actually illegal.
It was still right.

Legal, right, 2 separate things.

 

[yorkshirelad]

I frequent neither newssource. I *did* post links to conservative shock jocks who were waterboarded who admitted they would lie to make it stop. Concoct? You just like an excuse to use the second syllable.

Personal attack much? OH yeah! That's why I put you on ignore ... that and your ignorant rightist spew.

Buh-bye ... again!

So, I know you're not going to see this, but intel was not collected through waterboarding. Waterboarding serves a different, but necessary purpose. You should research it and open your mind!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So, I know you're not going to see this, but intel was not collected through waterboarding. Waterboarding serves a different, but necessary purpose. You should research it and open your mind!

Some of us have, that's why we accept the illegality of it, the immorality of it, and the plain wrongness and contradictory nature of it.

But, Emperor George the Dim said he was above the law and could do what he wanted, and Prince Dick the Rabid did agree, and they had a fool pen a tome for the ages, which was passed down unto the faithful who hold it as Gospel against the evils of the unbelievers. You know, the legal community.

Me, I'd love to see them both waterboarded.
Anyway, gotta run, have to go watch that documentary "Lil Bush". The episode where Lil Cheny's black heart bursts is on.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I did a small survey.
Asked 10 people the following:
How long would I have to waterboard you, before you confessed to stealing the Death Star plans?
In 5 cases I had to describe what waterboarding is.
Funny thing.

All 10 people said they'd confess.

Guess that means I know 10 people wanted by Lord Vader right?
Because it's an accurate way of getting information?

Yeah.

Anyone who supports the discredited idea of torture, you haven't got much credibility here.

Mind you, I have no issues with a dead Bin Laden.
Just some of the means.

I also have no issue with the strike that killed him.
Even if it was actually illegal.
It was still right.

Legal, right, 2 separate things.

well that would be a stupid way to question someone under the stress of waterboarding.
I think its pretty well known that waterboarding for example us used in an open ended questioning manner.
its also used after extensive normal questioning is done, or if there is a time crunch and the person in question is believed to have sensitive material that needs to be had asap.
asking a terrorist associate to give all the names of the people they know is involved is going to get you quite different results then asking him to give you all the names as you are waterboarding him. Sure you will get some nonsense information as well, but you will stand a better chance of getting quality information as well, the next steps are easy in developing that information as was done in the case of UBL, then planning and executing the plan as was done in this case.
its stupid to ask normal people a question about something they are not passionate about, with nothing on the line. you might as well asked them to translate your farts into english to discover what you were really trying to inform them of.