Best Throw/Locks/Groundwork Martial Art

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by Mikkel, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Mikkel

    Mikkel White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hey

    I am looking for a martial art that focuses equally much on standing throws/locks, the transition from that to groundwork, and the groundwork itself..
    Reason for this is that i would like to get a better selfdefense in the throws, locks, and groundwork area.

    Which martial art is the best in difference to these requirements in your opinion?

    I am open to ideas on Martial arts that focuses more on the standing throws/locks or the groundwork. Would be nice to find one that features them both though + transitioning.

    Hope you can help me :)

    Thanks in advance! :)
     
  2. Christopher Adamchek

    Christopher Adamchek Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    CT
    Thats tough, equally as much on each would probably be a krav, or taijutsu program. Granted you wont get super indepth in either area but they should be well balanced. Otherwise you should study judo and bjj (as you might have already thought). But if you want it for self-defense then a krav program or similar would be better to give you multiple areas of self defense than just the grappling.
     
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    16,727
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Wrestling while not really containing standing locks and ground work is still probably the best single art to understand their mechanics from a self defense point of view.

    Basically you will have a better chance if you understand the timing and entries needed to make those moves work. Rather than a technical expertise at the locks themselves.

    From a self defense point of view because staying on top and getting back up are generally seen as higher percentage options in self defence.
     
  4. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7,341
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    Here are some Combat Shuai Chiao (Chinese wrestling) approach.

    Shoulder lock -> kneeling hold



    Hip throw -> arm bar



    Leg seize, inner hook -> knee drop into groin



    Front cut -> throat choke, knee drop on chest

     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  5. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,327
    Likes Received:
    3,819
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Judo, Sambo, and BJJ cover all three areas. However most BJJ schools tend to focus much more heavily on the groundwork and most Judo schools tend to focus more on throws. If you can find a BJJ school that devotes consistent time to standup or a Judo school that devotes consistent time to groundwork, that would be a good option. Alternately, you might find a school that offers classes in both arts. They complement each other very well.

    I don't have enough experience with Sambo to know how well the typical school balances those different focuses.

    MMA does a good job of balancing standup (striking, clinching, and takedowns) + groundwork + transitions, but you'll typically get less in-depth exploration of each area.

    Catch wrestling has a good balance in those areas, but is hard to find. Other common forms of wrestling (freestyle, folkstyle, Greco) don't have the joint locks.

    There are many other westernized forms of jujutsu (ex - Danzan ryu, Shingitai, etc) that cover those different areas and some of them have a fairly balanced approach. However there's a significant range of quality you may encounter in these styles (from decent to terrible) and I don't believe they have the talent pool that you can find in Judo/BJJ/Sambo/MMA/Wrestling.
     
  6. Mikkel

    Mikkel White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Christopher:
    I have bad experience with Krav Maga though, so i am not to keen on that. Mostly cause the gyms in my area or generally my country(Denmark) of what i know, isnt practicing original Krav Maga, but bits of it mashed together(meaning that it only can be applied in few specific situations).. If it had been original, i would have been more keen towards it..
    But you are right about the Judo and Bjj.. Judo is mostly throws and locks focused, whereas Bjj is groundwork.. I think i am going with Bjj, if i have to choose though:)

    Thanks! :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    1,383
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    Id recommend sambo, but you might have trouble finding a school, depending on where you live (i have no idea how common it is in denmark)
     
  8. Mikkel

    Mikkel White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Kung fu wang:
    Thanks! Have seen them before, but i dont know how perform them properly, so i think i should attend classes to learn em :)

    Tony:
    True what you say about Judo and Bjj.. I think i will attend Bjj, if i have to choose, because controlling your opponent once on the ground is the better way i would reckon. :)
    I also heard about Sambo, which should be good.. Not sure if there is a gym in my area though.
    But it sounds like you think i should focus on either Judo, Bjj, MMA, or wrestling.. I will look into it! Thank you :p
     
  9. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    1,383
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    If not, my recommendation would be catch wrestling, but that might have the same issue
     
  10. Mikkel

    Mikkel White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Kempodisciple:
    I am not sure.. Looks like there is neither a Sambo dojo or catch wrestling in my area. But i have heard about an unofficial Sambo Dojo nearby(Meaning no webside, or references to location of it). I am looking into it :)
    Thanks :p
     
  11. Mikkel

    Mikkel White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Drop Bear:
    True enough.. I have been referenced to Wrestling by a couple of people, but i am not sure if it the martial art for me(I am tall and skinny).. I am thinking more in the way of Bjj/Judo/sambo and alike :)
    Thanks :p
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7,341
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    You should not take your opponent down and then start to play the ground game. Before you taking your opponent down, you should plan your ground game ahead of time.

    The simple strategies are to control your opponent's

    - leading arm -> apply your throw -> turn your leading arm control into arm bar.
    - leading leg -> apply your throw -> turn your leading leg control into leg bar, knee twist, or knee drop into groin.
    - head lock -> apply your throw -> turn your head lock into side mount.
    - ...

    Arm wrap, head lock -> side mount, arm bar, or head squeeze.

     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  13. Mikkel

    Mikkel White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Kung Fu Wang:
    That looks impressive, that looks like a good way to get your opponent to the ground. So i should be focusing on the groundwork aswell before taking him down. Seems like a good strategy! Thanks :p
     
  14. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7,341
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca


    Here is the simple logic. If you can control your opponent's head, after taking him down, you can continue that head control into the ground game. This mean that besides single leg and double leg take down, you will need to develop other take downs by controlling your opponent's head, arm, leg, ...

    IMO, the kick, punch, lock, throw, ground game integration should follow a "plan".

    You use

    - kick to set up punch.
    - punch to set up clinch.
    - clinch to set up throw.
    - throw to set up ground game.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    2,764
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Have you looked into ninjutsu? I hear it is very effective on the street.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. Mikkel

    Mikkel White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Kung Fu Wang:
    Allright, it sounds simple enough in theory. But the chance of it going according to the plan(Kick>Punch>Clinch>Throw>Ground game) when defending yourself against an, lets just say a random person, is very low, in my experience.. Everybody reacts differently you know. But what you are saying is that i should get a fair amount of training in both Judo and Bjj maybe?

    Steve:
    Havent heard of it, but i will definitely look into it! Thank you :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Hanshi

    Hanshi Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Virginia



    Judo, hapkido and jujutsu generally cover those areas. I have no knowledge of the Chinese arts that may overlap nor any experience with ninjutsu. Whatever you choose, look for a school that teaches a well rounded curriculum.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    16,727
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    Trophy Points:
    308
    For self defense who cares about body shape?

    Tall and skinny might have some relevance in a weight class.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,811
    Likes Received:
    1,944
    Trophy Points:
    388
    Location:
    New Iberia, Louisiana USA
    If you are looking for a system that does such take a look at Erik Paulson's CSW Combat Submission Wrestling if there is a coach in your area.
     
  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    7,341
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    Theory? Low chance?

    In the following clip, within 15 second, This guy made his combo to work twice in a role back to back.

    - roundhouse, side kick to close the distance.
    - punch to set up clinch.
    - clinch to take his opponent down (no ground game in Sanda rule set).

    This clip can prove that the sequence kick, punch, clinch, take down "plan" is not just a "theory". It does work.

     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019

Share This Page