Belt Testing
- Thread starter Azulx
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kuniggety
2nd Black Belt
I don't see why an instructor would let a student test if they thought that they would fail. I suppose everyone has their own philosophy but I think most belt tests are just a formality. I like the fact that most BJJ schools have gotten rid of "tests". You get tested every time you come to class.
That's how we do it. Your test is your performance in class. Every class is a test.
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Possibly because failure builds character.
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I think there are two different good approaches. One is that you don't let people test until they're ready, and the other is that you let everyone test every time and try to really emphasize the idea that it's okay to fail and that the important thing is to get up and try again. We do the former, and almost never fail people, but I think the latter approach has a lot of merit, too. A lot of people are afraid of failure, and can get paralyzed by that fear. Learning to fail and get back up and try again can be a valuable lesson. (I think it would be bad for business, though.
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There is a third approach: Let them decide when it is time to test, but make it clear just because they decided to test does not mean they will pass.I think there are two different good approaches. One is that you don't let people test until they're ready, and the other is that you let everyone test every time and try to really emphasize the idea that it's okay to fail and that the important thing is to get up and try again. We do the former, and almost never fail people, but I think the latter approach has a lot of merit, too. A lot of people are afraid of failure, and can get paralyzed by that fear. Learning to fail and get back up and try again can be a valuable lesson. (I think it would be bad for business, though.
drop bear
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Our guys don't test they fight. Now because they can fail in that environment they work very hard at being good martial artists.
Testing you could fail would put some fire into peoples training that you may not get otherwise.
I m a strong advocate of treating belt testing the same way as you would do a competition. So you are at top form when you do that test.
Testing you could fail would put some fire into peoples training that you may not get otherwise.
I m a strong advocate of treating belt testing the same way as you would do a competition. So you are at top form when you do that test.
We don't charge to test or to promote. If a student advances to a new color belt, they owe us $10 for the belt itself. Not exactly a huge money-maker. I know many martial arts styles depend on testing fees and promotion fees and mandatory shias and so on to earn revenue. We do not. A promotion is something a student earns, not an opportunity to scalp them.
Fighting isn't always such a test, there's a fair few fighters who have 'fought' at well below their level to pad their records out. Fighting in a club against people you train with is also not always a reliable way to gauge how well a fighter is doing as they know their training partners tells and favourite methods so are always going to look that bit better against training partners than strangers. There is sometimes an unconscious pairing up to look good that goes on when training partners spar/fight.
If every class is a test then you know you have a fair test because you know what their commitment is, their effort, their skills and whether they are really ready to move up a grade.
Not a huge fan of this, at least for self defense styles. It lends people to focus only on what works for them in a fight, rather than learning the system as a whole.
testing happens in class, leading up to a graduation. Graduation is not a test, but they do spar a few rounds at it, more about going in front of a crowd and giving it your best though.
drop bear
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I would have thought you would want to apply what works for you regardless if it is self defence or otherwise.
But otherwise if you think there should be a syllabus. Then you can still test that rigourously.
This could be a big problem if those you train with are at your level. If people have not learned everything yet, they will disregard training in things that help them counter stuff their opponent will learn to do eventually. (Or in terms of competition outside of club maybe have learnt already)
Just my thought.
Agreed, for the most part. Tests should be fail-able, or they shouldn't be done. Now, most people get stressed by the idea of being tested, so testing is inherently more difficult than just regular classwork, but my preference is that the test be specifically designed to...well, test. There are portions I'll test simply so I can make sure I didn't miss anything (classical forms) and so I can make sure there aren't any consistent gaps across techniques (so, defensive applications are tested many at a time).
However, I don't really like students to get in their best form just for the test. I'm actually toying with the idea of tests being a bit of a surprise, so they can't "get ready to test". I saw a lot of that as I was going through the ranks - even folks "getting ready" for their self-defense test that was required for brown belt and black belt. My response was that I was already ready for it, and just needed to keep working on where I wanted to improve, regardless of the test's proximity.
In the past, I have charged a small testing fee, simply to keep students (usually kids, whom I do not teach now) from coming to a test unprepared. They were wasting my time - time I could have been teaching them or someone else - by being unprepared to test. I've solved that in my program by no longer allowing the students to select when to test. Since formal testing is there to verify what I see in class, I now make the decision when a student is ready to test.
- Thread Starter
- #17
@gpseymour I just want to make sure I'm understandign correctly. You don't have formal testing or a set designated date where people eligible to test can test. You just test people whenever they are ready?
Yes. That's only a slight variation on they way I came up in mainline NGA. We don't do big testing days. Most tests or test segments take 20-30 minutes (except the self-defense tests - those can last an hour or more, and are scheduled separately), so they are done during regular classes. The only difference in how I test is that one day a student will walk in, and I'll tell them, "After you warm up, wait over there for me. You'll be testing your Classical Sets today."
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- #19
Ah I see. My Head Instructor used to have testing just whenever the student was ready but that was when we only had four students. Once we moved locations and almost quadrupled in size (15 students) this became difficult with only 2 instructors. So we have recently just moved to a system where there is a belt test every three months, and he will just announce who is ready around 2 weeks beforehand. He is a firm believer in not failing students.
JR 137
Grandmaster
I'm testing for my green belt (4th kyu) on Monday night, and here's how it's done at my dojo...
My 5 year old daughter and I were asked if we'd like to test about 2 weeks ago. Our test will be on Monday night. She'll test for her blue belt (8th kyu) along with 3 others during the kids' class. There will be other kids taking class that aren't testing.
After she's done, I'll test during the adults' class immediately following. I'll be the only one, but there's typically 8 or 9 students at that class, and most of them will be there, and a lot of the senior black belts take class during kyu promotion tests to support the people testing and be a partner during applicable stuff.
Kyu promotional tests are basically like every other class, only the intensity is higher, and my teacher makes sure he made it through the entire rank syllabus. During kata, I'll be a few steps in front of the rest of the line, and I'll be a count ahead of everyone else. I'll always be paired up with higher ranking students in partner stuff, and my teacher's eyes are on me 99% of the time. I'll be the only one allowed to answer questions, unless my teacher specifically asks someone else, and he won't give me any pointers on technique unless I'm really struggling or repeating a big mistake. If I make a mistake, I have to do it again.
The main thing my teacher is looking for is attitude/spirit. We've already demonstrated proficiency prior to being tested.
I can't say this is exactly what'll happen, but that's been the routine for every test I've taken so far.
My teacher does kyu testing, and our founder (Tadashi Nakamura) does dan testing at the honbu. We go there because we're only about 2.5 hours away.
My former school held promotional tests every 3 months. It was also by invitation only. The dojo was closed, and my former sensei's teacher came in and tested everyone. It was a bit too much of a production IMO. I much prefer what is m currently doing.
My 5 year old daughter and I were asked if we'd like to test about 2 weeks ago. Our test will be on Monday night. She'll test for her blue belt (8th kyu) along with 3 others during the kids' class. There will be other kids taking class that aren't testing.
After she's done, I'll test during the adults' class immediately following. I'll be the only one, but there's typically 8 or 9 students at that class, and most of them will be there, and a lot of the senior black belts take class during kyu promotion tests to support the people testing and be a partner during applicable stuff.
Kyu promotional tests are basically like every other class, only the intensity is higher, and my teacher makes sure he made it through the entire rank syllabus. During kata, I'll be a few steps in front of the rest of the line, and I'll be a count ahead of everyone else. I'll always be paired up with higher ranking students in partner stuff, and my teacher's eyes are on me 99% of the time. I'll be the only one allowed to answer questions, unless my teacher specifically asks someone else, and he won't give me any pointers on technique unless I'm really struggling or repeating a big mistake. If I make a mistake, I have to do it again.
The main thing my teacher is looking for is attitude/spirit. We've already demonstrated proficiency prior to being tested.
I can't say this is exactly what'll happen, but that's been the routine for every test I've taken so far.
My teacher does kyu testing, and our founder (Tadashi Nakamura) does dan testing at the honbu. We go there because we're only about 2.5 hours away.
My former school held promotional tests every 3 months. It was also by invitation only. The dojo was closed, and my former sensei's teacher came in and tested everyone. It was a bit too much of a production IMO. I much prefer what is m currently doing.
