Belt Rank Progress

[CK1980]

I would personally think that missing a belt change would be more of a slap to your ego than anything else... And if you feel devastated, then its a good thing... It means you needed for it to happen. It puts things in perspective... Use it as a learning experience.

As with the others, knowing the full story would help with understanding the issue...

 

[Blindside]

It isn't always a matter of fault. Some students progress at the rate they progress. You can't make a student move at a pace they are incapable of attaining or maintaining. The end result is a hurried and half baked first degree.

But first degree is really meaningless. If you are associating awarding of merit badges with progress, then you're operating under false premise. Students who are worried about merit badges and rank are there for the wrong reason. I'm happy to have them (a paying student is a paying student), and in time, some mature and get past their preoccupation with meaningless merit badges. Others attain their badges but miss some of the sights along the way.

Don't be focused on merit badges. And truly, that is what colored belts are. Set actual training goals and when you're in class, focus on what is being taught and on what you're doing (this is to the general you, not specifically you).

I found the color belt system very useful as a kenpo underbelt, I set target goals of when I wanted to accomplish that goal (belt) and worked toward it. Somewhere in my files I have an excel file with target dates and what I needed to do between those dates. Assuming belts are a measure of proficiency (and if they aren't why have them), they represent the tangible accomplishment of the training. Sure I was working toward the belt, but to get the belt I needed the skills of that belt. Made perfect sense to me.

After getting my blackbelt I stopped chasing rank, I didn't stop studying, but I stopped pursuing rank as a goal. Nowadays I run classes (in a different art) that is based on a simple student or instructor ranking system. Seems to work just fine as well, though I suspect my retention might be a little higher with a belt system or something similar.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I found the color belt system very useful as a kenpo underbelt, I set target goals of when I wanted to accomplish that goal (belt) and worked toward it. Somewhere in my files I have an excel file with target dates and what I needed to do between those dates. Assuming belts are a measure of proficiency (and if they aren't why have them), they represent the tangible accomplishment of the training. Sure I was working toward the belt, but to get the belt I needed the skills of that belt. Made perfect sense to me.

I agree; a belt or equivalent system is great for goal setting, and is probably the most useful element of such systems for students.

After getting my blackbelt I stopped chasing rank, I didn't stop studying, but I stopped pursuing rank as a goal. Nowadays I run classes (in a different art) that is based on a simple student or instructor ranking system. Seems to work just fine as well, though I suspect my retention might be a little higher with a belt system or something similar.

Training to achieve training goals rather than to achieve rank is one of the marks of maturation of the practitioner.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I have to admit I'm with MJS on this. I'd like to hear the story in order to understand where he's coming from. In part because I have trouble imagining how missing a belt rank goal could be so devastating. Losing your job, your home, your family... these are devastating. Not changing your belt color? I can see how that would ruin the after-test celebratory dinner. That's why I'd like to hear the story.

I suspect that it was more than the change of belt color that is at issue, but since he hasn't shared the story, this is all just speculation.

 

[lklawson]

I agree; a belt or equivalent system is great for goal setting, and is probably the most useful element of such systems for students.


Training to achieve training goals rather than to achieve rank is one of the marks of maturation of the practitioner.

In many ways, modern Olympic style Fencing has similar constructs with similar advantages. The requirements for Coach, Provost, and Maestro are pretty easy to find, if not always easy to achieve, as are individual fencer's Points, Ratings, and Classifications.

Even Ratings is things like national Chess leagues are pretty similar. If you want a certain Standing, you know what is needed to achieve it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[David Lader]

Can we all please hear the actual story that inspired this thread in the first place? I am extremely curious and somewhat baffled by the amount of energy we have all put into this without knowing how this man's life was "ruined..."

 

[PhotonGuy]

There have been posts here about people wanting to hear my story. Anybody who wants to hear my story about how failing to make a certain goal within a certain time limit practically ruined my life here it is. This will be long so if you plan to sit through this, as I said, its a long post.


The way its done at my dojo is that they hold promotion tests every three to four months. You decide if you want to test for your next belt up and if you want to test you sign up at your own discretion by filling out a form, paying a testing fee, and then testing on the test date. Just because you take the test does not mean you will pass, people do fail so another words, you don't get belt ranks handed to you, you do have to perform well enough in the test to pass and especially for some of the higher belts the standards for passing are quite high. Now, anybody who considers my place a McDojo because it allows students to decide for themselves to test, you're entitled to your opinion although I don't think you would consider my place a McDojo if you ever visited. But that's beside the point, I am not trying to debate whether or not my place is a McDojo Im just explaining how things are done at my place and as I said, just because a person chooses to test does not mean they will pass, people do fail especially at the higher belts.


I've posted quite a bit about Boycscouts and particularly the rank of Eagle Scout, how it has a cutoff point where you have to be under the age of 18 to become an Eagle Scout. I've been using that because it is a good example of something that has a set time limit. However, Eagle Scout is not the only thing that has a time limit, most of not everything in life has time limits of some sort. If anything, the fact that you've got only so long to live is the ultimate time limit for everything you do in this life. But aside from that, even if you have a goal that doesn't have a time limit that is established by a certain organization or whatnot (such as the Boyscouts Of America organization) you might still have a time limit for a certain goal that you establish yourself. For just about all my goals, as part of the very goal itself, I have a self established time limit in which to get it done. My self established time limits are usually quite reasonable and so if I don't meet them, I am very upset, even downright depressed and sometimes, quite ticked off to put it mildly. One of the self established time limits I had for myself in the martial arts was to make blackbelt before I turned 20. At my dojo, they do not require you to be under 20 to get a black belt but it was a requirement I had for myself and it was very reasonable. Especially considering the fact that shortly after I turned 18 I became a high level brown belt. At my dojo, high level brown belt is the rank right before blackbelt, there are three levels to brown, low, middle, and high, and right after high level brown belt is blackbelt. Since I reached high level brown belt shortly after turning 18 I had almost two years to go that one extra step to blackbelt and achieve my goal of reaching blackbelt befure I turned 18.


So anyway, there was this myth at my dojo that unlike when you test for any of the lower belts, to test for blackbelt you had to wait until the sensei told you that you could test. As I said, it was a myth but it was a very prevalent myth. Lots of the people in my dojo believed it including myself. The fact of the matter was that, when a student made high level brown belt, the student could then sign up to take the black belt test at their own discretion whenever they had promotion tests which was every three to four months. However, I did not know that, I believed the myth that I had to wait until the sensei told me I could test for blackbelt. So I waited and waited. My 20th birthday came and I still had not made blackbelt so I missed my goal. More years passed as I continued to wait for sensei to tell me I could take the blackbelt test and I was working really hard and to say I was really frustrated is a huge understatement. I was working really really super hard and still not making blackbelt as the years passed so it would be hard for anybody to imagine my frustration. That and my self esteem dropped to rock bottom. After all, I was working super hard and not making my goal and I was way past my time limit.


To conclude this, yes, I finally did make blackbelt when another student dispelled the myth about having to be told you could take the blackbelt test. The student had talked to the sensei himself and learned the truth and passed it on to me and others. It was then when I signed up for the blackbelt test, took it, and passed. While I finally did make blackbelt, I was way past the time limit of meeting my goal. I was 27, a few weeks short of turning 28 when I made blackbelt, so I was 8 years late in making my goal. So that is how not making a goal within a certain time limit practically ruined my life. To anybody who has read this, I would like to say thank you for sitting through this.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I read it. I have to ask if your use of the phrase "ruined your life" is hyperbole or literal.

If a self imposed goal of this nature truly came close to ruining your life, then it isn't the missing of the goal within a time limit that nearly ruined your life but an unrealistic amount of weight being placed on that goal.

If your identity (speaking of the general you, not you specifically) is invested in something outside of yourself (and this is a fairly common thing), then it will be tied to the waxing and waning of whatever you've invested it in.

This goes back to a comment that I made much earlier in this thread about confusing external symbols and badges of achievement with achievement itself. Acquiring proficiency in technique is an achievement. A black belt is just a piece of cloth that represents that achievement. Yes, it is nice, but you've still made the achievement whether or not you have the belt.

Thank you for sharing the story. I appreciate that you did so.

 

[David Lader]

I'm speechless.

 

[lklawson]

There have been posts here about people wanting to hear my story. Anybody who wants to hear my story about how failing to make a certain goal within a certain time limit practically ruined my life here it is. This will be long so if you plan to sit through this, as I said, its a long post.

OK, I can see how that's indescribably frustrating and you have my sympathy. Truly.

But I'm unclear on how it nearly ruined your life. I can see that you "lost" about 7 years out of your goal time, but, aside from forcing you to wait 7 years longer, cumulatively, for every other belt rank, how did this ruin your life? Did you slide into depression so bad that you lost jobs or ruined relationships? Alcoholism? Drugs? Self harming behavior?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

If your identity (speaking of the general you, not you specifically) is invested in something outside of yourself (and this is a fairly common thing), then it will be tied to the waxing and waning of whatever you've invested it in.

That's just being a man.

If you watch any two men introducing themselves, one of the first things they ask each other is, "what do you do for a living." Their response is invariably, "I'm a [x]." I'm a lineman. I'm a programmer. I'm a teacher. I'm a carpenter. I'm a manager.

"I AM a [x]" not "I do [x] for a living."

And, to be honest, same thing goes for martial arts.

Wanna know a secret? I AM a martial artist. OK, it ain't really a secret and I'm exaggerating a little bit. But only a little. My hobbies are very very important to my self identity. Some day, I'm going to be too old, decrepit, busted up, to be a "martial artist" or to keep shooting, or, frankly, everything else I've always identified myself by. Some day, I may suffer memory loss or dementia and my reliance on my mind will be gone too. Maybe I'll suffer from an injury which will totally destroy my physicality and ability to be a martial artist or whatever. How will I rectify not being a martial artist then? Frankly I don't know. But at least I've thought about it some, eh?

It's just part of being a man. I remember when my grandfather, a professional, accredited, Journeyman Carpenter, got severe rheumatoid arthritis in his hands. The constant pain and deformation of the joints made him crabby. But it also affected how he saw himself. He was still a Carpenter, but he couldn't "do" any longer. So was he really a Carpenter? It's a blow to the ego.

Yeah, I know that we should all work to view ourselves as more than just what we do or what we physically contribute. We all have "worth" greater than merely as a "producer." But convince our lizard brains of that, eh?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk the Martial Artist <strike><strike><strike><strike><strike> Kirk the Man

 

[MJS]

There have been posts here about people wanting to hear my story. Anybody who wants to hear my story about how failing to make a certain goal within a certain time limit practically ruined my life here it is. This will be long so if you plan to sit through this, as I said, its a long post.


The way its done at my dojo is that they hold promotion tests every three to four months. You decide if you want to test for your next belt up and if you want to test you sign up at your own discretion by filling out a form, paying a testing fee, and then testing on the test date. Just because you take the test does not mean you will pass, people do fail so another words, you don't get belt ranks handed to you, you do have to perform well enough in the test to pass and especially for some of the higher belts the standards for passing are quite high. Now, anybody who considers my place a McDojo because it allows students to decide for themselves to test, you're entitled to your opinion although I don't think you would consider my place a McDojo if you ever visited. But that's beside the point, I am not trying to debate whether or not my place is a McDojo Im just explaining how things are done at my place and as I said, just because a person chooses to test does not mean they will pass, people do fail especially at the higher belts.


I've posted quite a bit about Boycscouts and particularly the rank of Eagle Scout, how it has a cutoff point where you have to be under the age of 18 to become an Eagle Scout. I've been using that because it is a good example of something that has a set time limit. However, Eagle Scout is not the only thing that has a time limit, most of not everything in life has time limits of some sort. If anything, the fact that you've got only so long to live is the ultimate time limit for everything you do in this life. But aside from that, even if you have a goal that doesn't have a time limit that is established by a certain organization or whatnot (such as the Boyscouts Of America organization) you might still have a time limit for a certain goal that you establish yourself. For just about all my goals, as part of the very goal itself, I have a self established time limit in which to get it done. My self established time limits are usually quite reasonable and so if I don't meet them, I am very upset, even downright depressed and sometimes, quite ticked off to put it mildly. One of the self established time limits I had for myself in the martial arts was to make blackbelt before I turned 20. At my dojo, they do not require you to be under 20 to get a black belt but it was a requirement I had for myself and it was very reasonable. Especially considering the fact that shortly after I turned 18 I became a high level brown belt. At my dojo, high level brown belt is the rank right before blackbelt, there are three levels to brown, low, middle, and high, and right after high level brown belt is blackbelt. Since I reached high level brown belt shortly after turning 18 I had almost two years to go that one extra step to blackbelt and achieve my goal of reaching blackbelt befure I turned 18.


So anyway, there was this myth at my dojo that unlike when you test for any of the lower belts, to test for blackbelt you had to wait until the sensei told you that you could test. As I said, it was a myth but it was a very prevalent myth. Lots of the people in my dojo believed it including myself. The fact of the matter was that, when a student made high level brown belt, the student could then sign up to take the black belt test at their own discretion whenever they had promotion tests which was every three to four months. However, I did not know that, I believed the myth that I had to wait until the sensei told me I could test for blackbelt. So I waited and waited. My 20th birthday came and I still had not made blackbelt so I missed my goal. More years passed as I continued to wait for sensei to tell me I could take the blackbelt test and I was working really hard and to say I was really frustrated is a huge understatement. I was working really really super hard and still not making blackbelt as the years passed so it would be hard for anybody to imagine my frustration. That and my self esteem dropped to rock bottom. After all, I was working super hard and not making my goal and I was way past my time limit.


To conclude this, yes, I finally did make blackbelt when another student dispelled the myth about having to be told you could take the blackbelt test. The student had talked to the sensei himself and learned the truth and passed it on to me and others. It was then when I signed up for the blackbelt test, took it, and passed. While I finally did make blackbelt, I was way past the time limit of meeting my goal. I was 27, a few weeks short of turning 28 when I made blackbelt, so I was 8 years late in making my goal. So that is how not making a goal within a certain time limit practically ruined my life. To anybody who has read this, I would like to say thank you for sitting through this.

Well, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm just going to comment on a few things:

1) I still can't help but think it's a bit odd that a teacher would let a student decide for themselves, when to test. Yes, I know you said that nothing says the student can't fail, but I do wonder why the teacher would allow the student to test, and then afterwards, tell them that they failed and need to work harder and try again. Eliminate that, and instead, let the teacher, not the student, decide. Could the student still fail, even if the teacher says they're ready? Sure, but the odds should be lower.

2) As I've said before...what's the rush? My current teacher allows students to test for black, when HE, not them, feels they're ready. It wouldn't matter if I had a 2 yr goal or 10yr goal. IMHO, I think that there are more important things in life to worry about, rather than not meeting a belt rank goal. I certainly wouldn't say that that is something that would ruin ones life.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

1) I still can't help but think it's a bit odd that a teacher would let a student decide for themselves, when to test. Yes, I know you said that nothing says the student can't fail, but I do wonder why the teacher would allow the student to test, and then afterwards, tell them that they failed and need to work harder and try again. Eliminate that, and instead, let the teacher, not the student, decide. Could the student still fail, even if the teacher says they're ready? Sure, but the odds should be lower.

Outside of the martial arts, this is quite common. Hate to say it, but we're the oddballs.

2) As I've said before...what's the rush? My current teacher allows students to test for black, when HE, not them, feels they're ready. It wouldn't matter if I had a 2 yr goal or 10yr goal. IMHO, I think that there are more important things in life to worry about, rather than not meeting a belt rank goal. I certainly wouldn't say that that is something that would ruin ones life.

Indeed. No need for a rush. Training goals should be manageable and attainable, but more importantly, the focus should be on the immediate goals. If you're a white belt or equivallent, focus on that matieral with the goal of mastering it. If you build your skills, block by block, then the black belt becomes simply the next training goal and isn't a big, magical talisman that somehow transforms you. More importantly, you've built a strong foundation upon which to build after you earn your black belt.

 

[Blindside]

To conclude this, yes, I finally did make blackbelt when another student dispelled the myth about having to be told you could take the blackbelt test. The student had talked to the sensei himself and learned the truth and passed it on to me and others. It was then when I signed up for the blackbelt test, took it, and passed. While I finally did make blackbelt, I was way past the time limit of meeting my goal. I was 27, a few weeks short of turning 28 when I made blackbelt, so I was 8 years late in making my goal. So that is how not making a goal within a certain time limit practically ruined my life. To anybody who has read this, I would like to say thank you for sitting through this.

That.... sucks. Sorry, at some point your instructor should have given you a kick in the *** and said "why the hell aren't you signing up, you are over ready." In fact, I would say that it is a point of failing with your instructor. A student avoiding a test may be doing because they lack self-confidence, your teacher SHOULD be addressing this if he is interested in your development. I have seen students who have stopped pursuing rank, either because they didn't care or they didn't want to be an instructor, or they simply were not going to accomplish the technical requirements of the next rank. However, I always knew why as an instructor they weren't doing so, and quite frankly as a fellow student I knew why. I can't imagine watching a student stick at a rank for 10 years and just never ask "what that heck are you doing" and I wouldn't have asked it that politely. 10 years! I went out and learned a new system to a full instructor rank in that time, something is just odd about this story.

Now, I am curious, when you did get your black, were you less proficient than the black belts who got tested years earlier than you? Not in the # of forms that you did, but when you sparred or practiced self-defense techniques where did you stand in proficiency?

 

[David Lader]

I am also unclear about how this story "ruined a life..." Kirk's response is very thoughtful and respectful... I do know that it has become easier for me, with time, to tolerate life's pains and dissappointments more readily... When I was much younger, I was far more emotionally reactive to uncomfortable circumstances - I think this is fairly normal... It takes a great deal more to "knock folks off their center" as they mature. I certainly mean no disrespect...Again, I think this is very much an age-related situation unless, of course, these events escalated into truly unmanagable life consequences such as loss of physical functioning, emotional stability, or financial security, etc...

 

[MJS]

Outside of the martial arts, this is quite common. Hate to say it, but we're the oddballs.

It does? I don't know, maybe it's just been a long day, but to be honest, I'm drawing a blank on when this would apply in the real world.

Indeed. No need for a rush. Training goals should be manageable and attainable, but more importantly, the focus should be on the immediate goals. If you're a white belt or equivallent, focus on that matieral with the goal of mastering it. If you build your skills, block by block, then the black belt becomes simply the next training goal and isn't a big, magical talisman that somehow transforms you. More importantly, you've built a strong foundation upon which to build after you earn your black belt.

Of course. Would I like to get my BB in Kyokushin? Of course. Right now, my focus is on my immediate goal, as you say, and learning, performing, etc, to the best of my ability for my green belt.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

It does? I don't know, maybe it's just been a long day, but to be honest, I'm drawing a blank on when this would apply in the real world.

People test for things without an instructor's blessing all the time. Everything from drivers licenses to certifications in everything from HVAC to computer programming to various elements of auto mechanics.

Then you have the academic model of preordered tests that everyone must take, pass or fail, with repeated failure meaning repetition of the grade, which is a different ball of wax.

Note that I'm not stumping for the testing method Photonguy describes, but it hardly is cause for wonder.

My actual opinion of it is this: It is not a very productive way of grading in the martial arts, which is why I don't use it myself. A student needs to reach a certain level of proficiency in one set of skills before moving onto the next because of the way that more advanced skills build upon more basic skills. So it really isn't about testing but about the pace of training. Tests are just artificial intervals invented to provide both attainable training goals and to enable a ranking system.

Then you have the element of continued practice of the basics, without which, the more advanced skills will suffer. My job as an instructor is not prepare students for tests but to train them. Tests are useful tools in training my students but are not the end goal.

 

[MJS]

People test for things without an instructor's blessing all the time. Everything from drivers licenses to certifications in everything from HVAC to computer programming to various elements of auto mechanics.

Then you have the academic model of preordered tests that everyone must take, pass or fail, with repeated failure meaning repetition of the grade, which is a different ball of wax.

Note that I'm not stumping for the testing method Photonguy describes, but it hardly is cause for wonder.

My actual opinion of it is this: It is not a very productive way of grading in the martial arts, which is why I don't use it myself. A student needs to reach a certain level of proficiency in one set of skills before moving onto the next because of the way that more advanced skills build upon more basic skills. So it really isn't about testing but about the pace of training. Tests are just artificial intervals invented to provide both attainable training goals and to enable a ranking system.

Then you have the element of continued practice of the basics, without which, the more advanced skills will suffer. My job as an instructor is not prepare students for tests but to train them. Tests are useful tools in training my students but are not the end goal.

In the above situations though, you test after you've completed the required lessons, and the instructor signs off on it. Unless things changed, you're telling me that you don't have to take a test or get cleared before you go for your DL? I guess my point is...before you get the OK to test, you have to make sure that you know the material, no? Wow, if that's not the case, then it's pretty scary to know that the guy who is, oh, I don't know, doing your plumbing, HVAC or electrical work, might not know what the hell he's doing.

Maybe it's just me Dan, but speaking for myself, when I test for something, I want to make damn sure I know what I'm doing, and can perform to the highest standards, so as to ensure that the odds of me passing said test, are above average. Furthermore, I still can't understand what the big fixation is with a time table. I mean, who cares if it take 6yrs or 10yrs to get a BB? Sorry, but it's not life or death and its certainly not anything to claim that it ruined your life.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

In the above situations though, you test after you've completed the required lessons, and the instructor signs off on it. Unless things changed, you're telling me that you don't have to take a test or get cleared before you go for your DL? I guess my point is...before you get the OK to test, you have to make sure that you know the material, no? Wow, if that's not the case, then it's pretty scary to know that the guy who is, oh, I don't know, doing your plumbing, HVAC or electrical work, might not know what the hell he's doing.

HVAC technicians, mechanics, etc., are constantly recertifying and keeping their skills current. Yes, they take classes, or they learn the material on their own, but they don't need some special permission to take the test. If they don't know the material, they don't pass and thus don't receive the certification. Teens looking to get their license will face different requirements in different states, but once they've met whatever preparatory requirements are required, they may take the test at any time, no special permission needed. And if they're unable to pass, they don't receive the license.

So the end result is the same; not enough knowledge or skill, no certification.

And even with certifications, there's always a possibility that the technician, programmer, mechanic, doctor, laywer, or black belt doesn't know what they're doing. While certifications are an indicator, they don't guarantee that you know what your doing; only that you passed the required test. Which is why you have some shops that are notorious for screwing up your car.

Maybe it's just me Dan, but speaking for myself, when I test for something, I want to make damn sure I know what I'm doing, and can perform to the highest standards, so as to ensure that the odds of me passing said test, are above average.

I don't disagree. But I'm talking about testing practices. Let's face it; outside of the martial arts, you don't sit around waiting for your teacher to tell you that you can test. Courses run a set amount of time and you test at the end of the course. If you don't pass, you retest.

By contrast, in the martial arts, the notion of a set amount of time to test to blackbelt is viewed as some kind of heresy. This is further complicated by the element of profit that is often a part of gradings.

As I said previously, I do not care for the idea of testing for MA grades the way that you test for technical certifications. In a martial art training environment, it simply isn't productive in my opinion. But I certainly wouldn't wonder about it if another school chooses to grade this way. As I said, it is a fairly common method of testing outside of the martial arts.

Furthermore, I still can't understand what the big fixation is with a time table. I mean, who cares if it take 6yrs or 10yrs to get a BB?

I agreed with you on that in a prior response, but this is a separate issue from testing methodology.

Sorry, but it's not life or death and its certainly not anything to claim that it ruined your life.

See my response to Photonguy on this.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

That's just being a man.

If you watch any two men introducing themselves, one of the first things they ask each other is, "what do you do for a living." Their response is invariably, "I'm a [x]." I'm a lineman. I'm a programmer. I'm a teacher. I'm a carpenter. I'm a manager.

"I AM a [x]" not "I do [x] for a living."

And, to be honest, same thing goes for martial arts.

Wanna know a secret? I AM a martial artist. OK, it ain't really a secret and I'm exaggerating a little bit. But only a little. My hobbies are very very important to my self identity. Some day, I'm going to be too old, decrepit, busted up, to be a "martial artist" or to keep shooting, or, frankly, everything else I've always identified myself by. Some day, I may suffer memory loss or dementia and my reliance on my mind will be gone too. Maybe I'll suffer from an injury which will totally destroy my physicality and ability to be a martial artist or whatever. How will I rectify not being a martial artist then? Frankly I don't know. But at least I've thought about it some, eh?

It's just part of being a man. I remember when my grandfather, a professional, accredited, Journeyman Carpenter, got severe rheumatoid arthritis in his hands. The constant pain and deformation of the joints made him crabby. But it also affected how he saw himself. He was still a Carpenter, but he couldn't "do" any longer. So was he really a Carpenter? It's a blow to the ego.

Yeah, I know that we should all work to view ourselves as more than just what we do or what we physically contribute. We all have "worth" greater than merely as a "producer." But convince our lizard brains of that, eh?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk the Martial Artist <strike><strike><strike><strike><strike> Kirk the Man

Sure, that is the cultural norm for questions about one's livelihood or profession. But what we are is temporary. When I was in middle school, I couldn't wait to be an eighth grader because that meant that I was at the top of the student structure rather than the bottom or the middle. But that was temporary. The following year, I was a freshman and looked forward to being a senior. Which only lasted a year, and then I was a freshman again. But I was also now a young adult, not a teen.

We are more than our profession, but we are also more than our current life stage. I am a martial arts instructor, but one day, I may not be able to carry on in that capacity. I may lose the ability through age, illness, injury or life circumstance. Even our status as a human being is temporary. One day we will die and no longer inhabit our body. Regardless of one's beliefs on life after death, "we" will no longer be present in the shell we once inhabited.

Part of maturation is accepting the changes. I see soooo many people who cling to their high school and college identities. I see people so obsessed with defying age that they are willing to be duped into purchasing products and procedures that preserve their youthful looks to varrying degrees, but which do not in any way alter the stages of life or the passage of time. To be obsessed with holding onto your youth is to be unreconciled with who you are.

Then you have people who's identities are entirely wrapped up in their religion, political party, or nation of origin. This is unhealthy. Your religion may suffer scandal. Your political party may change its platform or lose influence, or in some cases never gain influence. Your nation of origin may be embark on destructive policy, be conquered, lose territory, be divided by civil war, lose economic stature, or simply cease to exist Compare a modern globe with a globe from the eighties). If your identity is entirely wrapped up in such things then you are vulnerable to feelings of inadequacy, depression, or anxiety as those things that you have tied your identity to suffer.