Behold, Dwarves

[Archangel M]

The thing that really irked me with Jacksons "rewrite" of the LOTR series was the whole re-characterization of Faramir. Followed by the "Aragorn goes over a cliff battle scene"...and taking up the rear; Arwen in general and the Elven warrior company showing up at Helms Deep.

 

[Big Don]

Honestly, the best translation of books to movies with NO major changes made are the Harry Potter movies. Right up until Part One of Deathly Hallows...

 

[Sukerkin]

The thing that really irked me with Jacksons "rewrite" of the LOTR series was the whole re-characterization of Faramir.

Darned straight, my friend :nods vigorously:. They turned the noblest Captain of the White City into a lesser brother pining for his fathers approval. Faramir did not lead the doomed charge into the face of the orcs because he was fretting for his fathers love - he did it because it was his duty to do so, regardless of consequences.

Even worse than that mangling of a character tho', was what they did to Denethor, his father! They made him almost unrecognisable and vile to me, whereas he was considered to be amongst the wisest of Men and nearly the equal of the Maiar (like Gandalf) in Lore. Yes he was twisted into despair by tangling with Sauron through the Palantir but he was still a 'better' man than the films showed.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I hope they get an unkown to do smaugs voice. Nothing takes you out of a movie more when the fantasy creature makes you say, Hey, that's Sean Connery. An unkown voice, nice and deep perhaps, or something lizardy,but powerful would be nice.

Actually it does appear that Benedict Cumberbatch is the voice of Smaug

 

[billc]

From the hobbit, which I haven't re-read in over twenty years, I didn't get the feeling that the dwarves were warriors. I remember a scene from the book where thorin explains that the survivors of the dragon attack, his guys, had all become successful in their own rights, and he pulled out a gold chain or something as a display of wealth(?), but that it ate at them to have their old home occupied by smaug. I don't remember them as being armed as warriors before they left the shire, more as just travelers.

 

[Blindside]

From the hobbit, which I haven't re-read in over twenty years, I didn't get the feeling that the dwarves were warriors. I remember a scene from the book where thorin explains that the survivors of the dragon attack, his guys, had all become successful in their own rights, and he pulled out a gold chain or something as a display of wealth(?), but that it ate at them to have their old home occupied by smaug. I don't remember them as being armed as warriors before they left the shire, more as just travelers.

The Hobbit was written as a book for kids, it sort of "grew up" when Tolkien went to write the sequel. Thorin Oakenshield was a badass (look at the origin of the name from the Appendices in ROTK), but wasn't written that way in the Hobbit. Certainly it is hard to imagine 12 Gimli's (book Gimli not movie Gimli) being captured by trolls, orcs, spiders, AND elves with barely a whimper.

 

[zDom]

Grammar Cop is going to have to issue a warning for punctuation.

"Behold, Dwarves" = asking dwarves to look at something.

What you mean, I believe, is "Behold: Dwarves!"

No ticket this time but don't forget to use your colon!

(heheheh.. I said "use your colon")

 

[Flying Crane]

Depends on how they insert them. I can see inserting them as a framing piece, something to tie viewers unaware of the book to the Lord of The Rings. Something like the scenes in The Princess Bride where the grandfather is reading the story... Maybe Frodo reading Bilbo's book to Galadriel and Legolas.

ya, given that Frodo would not be born yet for some 50 years...

More Edits: Bilbo was about 50 years old when he had his adventure that lasted for about one year.

His 111st birthday opened The Fellowship of the Ring, so about 60 years had passed. At that time, I believe Frodo was about 30-33 years old, in Hobbit terms he was just becoming a full adult. Bilbo left the shire after his birthday, and Frodo became master of Bad End. Frodo stayed there for about 17 years, I believe, before he set out on his adventure. That would have made him also about 50 years old.

The LTR movie really failed to show this passage of time. The younger hobbits: Sam, Merry and Pippin would have been quite young at the time of Bilbo's birthday. The passage of another 17 years brought them barely into adulthood, old enough to accompany Frodo on the quest. According to the movie, maybe only a few weeks or months passed. In reality, during this 17 years was when Gandalf and Aragorn were riding all over middle earth, acquiring information and hunting Gollum.

After the war of the ring, upon leaving Middle Earth, Bilbo had reached I believe 130 in age. So another 19 years passed while Frodo dwelt at Bag End. So Frodo was now about 70 years old. Again, the movies failed to show that passage of time. It looked like only a couple years might have passed.

 

[Flying Crane]

Orlando Bloom would be fine, if he played Legolas' father, or if Legolas was portrayed as VERY young and NOT NAMED
Galadriel? NO
Frodo? Hell No. That whiny little so and so

Legolas was probably a fully adult elf at the time the 13 dwarves and one hobbit visited them in Mirkwood. Keep in mind the Elves do not die of old age. They just continue on. I don't know that Legolas' age was ever established in the written works, but it's entirely possible that he was already many centuries, even thousands of years, old at the time of the Hobbit.

edit: sorry, looks like Suk already hit some of these points

Elrond was several thousand years old at the time of this story, and Galadriel was much older (she was actually Elrond's mother-in-law). Galadriel was among the first Elves in the world, she was truly ancient.

I'll say that I think Kili doesn't have a beard, just whiskers. I think that's an odd choice. I think a Dwarf without a full beard is essentially unheard of in Middle Earth, and that goes for the Dwarf women as well.

 

[billc]

I think to assume it was a mistake in gramar may be a little off. How do you know he wasn't addressing several dwarves and pointing out to them the pictures of the Hobbit dwarves?

 

[Big Don]

Grammar Cop is going to have to issue a warning for punctuation.

"Behold, Dwarves" = asking dwarves to look at something.

What you mean, I believe, is "Behold: Dwarves!"

No ticket this time but don't forget to use your colon!

(heheheh.. I said "use your colon")

That's a little anal retentive isn't it?
(hehehe... I said "anal")
By the way, when you use the ellipsis, it is three dots, not two, not four.
Don't mess with me, man, I used to date an English teacher.

 

[Big Don]

I'll say that I think Kili doesn't have a beard, just whiskers. I think that's an odd choice. I think a Dwarf without a full beard is essentially unheard of in Middle Earth, and that goes for the Dwarf women as well.

Maybe Kili is the Tolkien version of Dopey...

 

[Flying Crane]

From the hobbit, which I haven't re-read in over twenty years, I didn't get the feeling that the dwarves were warriors. I remember a scene from the book where thorin explains that the survivors of the dragon attack, his guys, had all become successful in their own rights, and he pulled out a gold chain or something as a display of wealth(?), but that it ate at them to have their old home occupied by smaug. I don't remember them as being armed as warriors before they left the shire, more as just travelers.

grr... I had typed up a thorough reply to this and it got lost in the netherworld....here goes again

I felt the same way. When they all left the Shire they were surprisingly poorly supplied, with aparently no weaponry. That doesn't sound like the planning of a seasoned group of warriors.

The story was written as a children's book, so I think there's room to forgive.

Later, Tolkien realized he needed to tighten some of these issues up when he wrote LOTR. He never intended to write it, but his fans wanted a Hobbit sequel so he began something that he thought would be short, and some 17 years later he finished LOTR.

Some re-writing needed to be done on the Hobbit. The first edition has Gollum GIVING the ring to Bilbo as a prize for winning the riddle game. In subsequent editions this was re-written so that Bilbo found the ring, Gollum accused him of cheating in the game, and stealing the ring. Without this re-write, the later LOTR would have had some serious problems....

Some of these issues were dealt with in the appendixes at the end of The Return of the King. Tolkien wanted to flesh some of this out, and I believe this is where you can find some background story behind setting up the Bilbo/Smaug quest. Thorin wanted to regain his home, and Gandalf realized that Smaug represented a serious problem in the world that he needed to deal with before Sauron might rise again to power. So there was some engineering behind the scenes and this quest developed that ended with the death of Smaug.

If this isn't in the appendix, then it's in some of the later volumes published by Christopher Tolkien. I don't remember exactly where I read it.

 

[Sukerkin]

FC, check to see if the site hasn't saved a copy of your post for you - the new software does that :tup:

Also, kudos to the pretend Grammar Nazi and general pun attacks above :bows:

 

[Flying Crane]

FC, check to see if the site hasn't saved a copy of your post for you - the new software does that :tup:

Also, kudos to the pretend Grammar Nazi and general pun attacks above :bows:

Ah, it doesn't matter now, I retyped most of what I wanted. Good to know for the future, tho.

 

[Archangel M]

True fans really need to read the appendix in LOTR. The book "Morgoth's Ring" (Christopher Tolkien) also fleshes out a lot of the legendarium.

 

[Big Don]

It has been a few years, but, I don't remember Kili being an archer.

As I am rereading the Hobbit, I stand corrected.

Thorin was the only one who had kept his feet and his wits. As soon as they had landed he had bent his bow and fitted an arrow in case any hidden guardian of the boat appeared. Now he sent a swift and sure shot into the leaping beast.

Most, if not all of the dwarves had bows, as they tried to shoot the white deer a few paragraphs later. Beorn gave them the bows.

 

[Sukerkin]

:chuckles: I too am lining up the Hobbit for a re-read after a few decades on the shelf . But I have a couple of Harrington books to get through first ...

 

[Steve]

That's a little anal retentive isn't it?
(hehehe... I said "anal")
By the way, when you use the ellipsis, it is three dots, not two, not four.
Don't mess with me, man, I used to date an English teacher.

Four dots is acceptable if the ellipses is at the end of a sentence and followed immediately by a period (that's a full stop for Brits). You're right with the number two. Two dots will never do. (Hehe. I said "number two" and "do)

And on topic, I was checking out a modern day version of Sherlock Holmes from the BBC on Netflix. Sherlock is played by Cumberbatch and Watson by Martin Freeman. I've enjoyed the two episodes I've seen so far. Well written and enjoyable. I thought it was an interesting coincidence that only a few days after hearing the casting for the Hobbit, both Smaug and Bilbo are in a different series together.