47MartialMan
Master of Arts
Because Okinawa is considered part of Japan's prefecture, is Karate still considered as a Japanese art?
Because Okinawa is..
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Depends who you ask...
Okinawa was not always a Japanese Prefecture. It has a different history, dialect and culture. At different points it was independant, Chinese, Japaneses, etc.
So how about Hawaiian fire dancing and belly dancing, are those "American" arts?
After the Native Americans found Columbus did the peace pipe and medicine wheel become European traditions?
Okinawa was not always a Japanese Prefecture. It has a different history, dialect and culture. At different points it was independant, Chinese, Japaneses, etc.
So how about Hawaiian fire dancing and belly dancing, are those "American" arts?
After the Native Americans found Columbus did the peace pipe and medicine wheel become European traditions?
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47MartialMan
Master of Arts
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Yes, I had a Hawaiian friend whose family believe that the US took over their homeland.Andrew Green said:
But as you stated it is still called Hawaiian Dancing, etc,,,,
Yes, just like a luau would be described as Hawaiian, not American, I'd call Karate as originally developed Okinawan, not Japanese.
However, I'd call Shotokan, Wado-Ryu, etc., Japanese.
However, I'd call Shotokan, Wado-Ryu, etc., Japanese.
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47MartialMan
Master of Arts
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So the distinction is of place or the founder?arnisador said:
Well, it's only fair to give credit where it's due, no?
In addition, the Japanese styles of Karate are noticeably different from the Okinawan styles.
In addition, the Japanese styles of Karate are noticeably different from the Okinawan styles.
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47MartialMan
Master of Arts
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Yes, but others view TKD as Shotokan or Japanese based and not Korean. Is this fair to state that TKD is not Korean?arnisador said:
Are we speaking in terms of origin, place, or founder?
Wonder how many Japanese practice TKD?47MartialMan said:
Nah, usually that is just Shotokan practitioners that like to feel superior to others...
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Actually there are a large number of Japanese that practice TKD.Andrew Green said:
ok... wonder how many would if it wasn't an Olympic sport...RRouuselot said:
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Andrew Green said:
I am wondering how many people world wide would study it if it wasn't an Olympic sport........
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47MartialMan
Master of Arts
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Yes, and many other Japanese martial art practitioners.Andrew Green said:Wonder how many Japanese practice TKD?
Nah, usually that is just Shotokan practitioners that like to feel superior to others...
Many people studied TKD long before it became a Olympic sport.
47MartialMan said:
TKD borrows alot from Shotokan in the same sense that Shotokan borrowed alot from Okinawan-te.
Borrowed?? Wow... that's forgiving.. :boing2:upnorthkyosa said:
IMHO & experience if it weren't for JMA, there'd be no KMA around today... Olympics or not.
RRouuselot ... please clean a space out in your PM box. I've got an off line question for you please.
Now they are two very distinct arts, so I'd say it is accurate.clfsean said:
Kung Fu began as a series of excercises taught to Monks by an "outsider", So should we say that Kung fu is not really Chinese? No, it borrowed, branched off and found its own feet to stand on. Same as TKD.
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
clfsean said:
Korean = Jap./Oki.
Tang Soo Do = Karate Do (old kara kanji)
TKD = Shotokan
Hapkido = Aikido (They use the exact same kanji to write it in Jap. And Kor.)
Yudo = Judo
Kumdo = Kendo
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Andrew Green said:
Those monks expanded on what they were taught that went way beyond the depth and scope of the original art they were exposed to.
The arts I listed in my last post have not.
Well specifically you're talking about the legend of Tamo & the Songshan Shaolin Monks. Problem with that is there were already martial arts being practiced in China, Shuai Jiao as an example from the steppes of Mongolia, before then. That's one specific legend regarding it.Andrew Green said:
Kung Fu is Chinese.
Taekwondo is Korean-ized Shotokan.
Yup, that prooves it right there...?RRouuselot said:
All countries have martial arts, Korea was no exception. There was martial arts practiced there before the Japanese Occupation.
TKD may have began as modified Shotokan, but since then it has changed. It has different forms, different techniques and different competition rules. It even went on to become an Olympic sport.
While I don't agree with attempts to rewrite it's history, it does have one that goes beyond Shotokan.
I'd say there are a lot more differences between Shotokan and TKD then Okinawan karate and Shotokan, and right up there with Okinawan karate and certain forms of Kung fu from which it originated. Yet, Okinawan karate is Okinawan not Chinese, Shotokan is Japanese not Okinawan and TKD is Korean, not Japanese.
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Oh there is no doubt it has changed from Shotokan to whatever it is now, but for what reasons?Andrew Green said:
Was the change motivated by martial necessity or by Ultra nationalistic pride?
Okinawa te did not solely come from Chinese Chuan Fa. Chinese arts were blended with already existing Okinawan arts which is why outside of a few styles like Goju and Uechi you will find hardly any kata that are similar between Okinawan and Chinese arts.
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