basic sword cuts

[Aiki Lee]

Hi yall,

I was surfing youtube trying to find footage of quality basic sword cuts, especially do giri and gyaku kesa giri. While all my cuts could stand some improvement, these cuts in particular are the most difficult for me as I feel I am not using my hips correctly or may be raising my arms to high (or not enough).

My teacher's arms are injured to the point that he can't swing a sword without pain, and so I can't have him demonstrate for me.

If any of you have any links to clips of good kenjutsu and iaijutsu with these cuts specifically I would most appreciate it.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Freebies from my sensei.
http://sdksupplies.com/cat_video_download.html

 

[ride57]

Thanks for the link.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi yall,

I was surfing youtube trying to find footage of quality basic sword cuts, especially do giri and gyaku kesa giri. While all my cuts could stand some improvement, these cuts in particular are the most difficult for me as I feel I am not using my hips correctly or may be raising my arms to high (or not enough).

My teacher's arms are injured to the point that he can't swing a sword without pain, and so I can't have him demonstrate for me.

If any of you have any links to clips of good kenjutsu and iaijutsu with these cuts specifically I would most appreciate it.

Hi Himura,

The thing to realise is that, although there is a lot of similarities and universalities with the use of a sword, there is also a lot of difference in approach. It's kinda odd, but there are a large number of "right" ways for things to be done, but for those who know what they're looking at, it's also very easy to see what's "wrong" when it appears.

That said, "right" can change depending on what you're doing.

For example, with the clips of Kim Taylor there, he is very skilled and knowledgable in his use of sword, and those are very good examples of Seitei Iaido that he's showing. However, what he's doing may not be what is done in your system. The position of the sword (in the obi) in Seitei Iai is different to classical systems, the footwork (with the rear foot coming up onto the ball of the foot) is not what is found universally, either, even the way the cuts are executed are different to other Ryu-ha's methodologies. So while the mechanics of cutting are spot-on, it doesn't mean that it is a good example of what you're looking for there.

Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu has a rather different cutting mechanic, as does Katori Shinto Ryu. Same with Kukishinden Ryu, for that matter. The way Do Giri is done is different between Katori, Kukishinden, and Seitei (it really doesn't turn up in HNIR, there's a different type of cut to the body in Moji Kamae, so you know), and the term "Gyaku Kesa Giri" means different things in different systems. Kesa Giri is named for the Kesa (Buddhist robe) worn, and traces a line from the base of the neck on the left side down to the right hip. Some systems leave it specifically for that side, and refer to a cut diagonally down right to left as "Gyaku (Reverse) Kesa Giri", others refer to a diagonally upward cut as "Gyaku Kesa Giri", so which you mean will change depending on the system you mean as well.

For more detail on that, see this thread: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90498

But you asked for some videos, and Ken has provided some very good ones already, so let's see if we can add to that, shall we? Here we go:

[yt]M9zQF3j5cEo[/yt] Toyama Ryu Tameshigiri, including upwards diagonal cuts and horizontal.

[yt]nlfb5Maq2I8[/yt] Katori Shinto Ryu, including Otake Sensei teaching the second kata from the Omote Tachijutsu, Nanatsu no Tachi, which features their method of Do Giri in the begining, as well as their upward cut/kamae O Kasumi.

[yt]_uYl6Pp4vdc[/yt] Old footage of Sosuishi Ryu Koshi no Mawari, there are some similarities to Seitei linked above, but it really isn't like Seitei at all. Quite interesting, really.

[yt]gFjbxa6YsUc[/yt] Kashima Shinryu. You may notice that the cutting mechanics are fairly different here to the other systems linked, with a higher emphasis on circular motions.

These should be a start for you, hopefully, but really, to get any more improvement on your swordsmanship, you'll need a teacher who can watch you and make the corrections you need. These clips may provide clues, but that's it, really.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Thanks for the clips guys.

Basically my concerns with do giri are whether or not the cut is aimed at chest level, or waist level and where the point of the blade comes to a stop upon completion of the cut.

In gyaku kesa giri (for us its a rising diagonal cut) I simply feel like I am not generating power as I rise from a lower posture. Again I am unsure whether or not the point of the blade should stop at shoulder level or if my cut should continue up past that.

I forget to ask my teacher about these things when I am around him, which is why I brought it up here.

Once of the problems with my iaito is that it feels too heavy. Other students use different brands that feel much lighter, which may be contributing to the drooping of the tip of my sword during do giri.

edit: while i'm at it. Here is a clip of me and my training partners performing free response with swords for our 3rd dan test:

I'm Lee, the big guy with the dark brown hair. I'd lke some constructive criticism if you don't mind. Keep in mind, I consider myself a novice swordsman, and our techniques are not prearranged and we were a real risk of actually being clobbered so I'm aware that being in a state of adrenaline burst has hindered some of our finer points. I'd just like to know if you see things that I might not at this point.

Thanks for your input!:boing1:

 

[Ken Morgan]

I’ll let Chris discuss the details, as he knows more of what you do then I.

In Kesa giri, your upward cut is not your killing cut, it opens up a 20” cut, an 1/8” deep. Enough to throw anyone into shock. It is your downward cut that finishes the job.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Oh? Interesting. I always assumed every cut was idealy a killing blow. It never occured to me that it wasn't meant for that. Thanks!

For the most part our swordsmanship is combined from kukishin ryu, eishin ryu, and daito ryu for the most part. Of course we have the sword kata from other schools but I'm not sure how influential they are in our cirriculum.

 

[Chris Parker]

Thanks, Ken, I'll see how I go!

With the Do Giri, aim for the waist. In armour you get about a ten centimetre (4 inch) gap at the waist where the kusazuri is joined to the do by cords which you can attack. Cutting to the chest is just not a high-return action (there is too much muscle to get through, the sternum and rib cage protect what you want to get to, and the arms are in the way as well), so aim for the softer, easier to cut bit a bit lower. If they're not wearing armour, then you can aim a little higher, but the chest itself (as a horizontal cut) isn't advised or common. What can be done, and I've seen this a few times, is a horizontal cut to the arm as a disabling (disarming?) action, mainly seen in things like Nito Yaburi (actions to win against a two-sword wielding attacker when you have a single sword) to isolate a single sword/arm.

The upward cut is honestly one of the least powerful ones there is in the repertoire, especially when done with two hands cutting up from the left to the right. For that reason it's sometimes used as a test in tameshigiri, and is only attempted after you've already got some experience in cutting. As Ken said, it's use as a "killing" strike is very limited, to the point where it is very uncommon as a cut in most systems (again, check the clips I put up above to see how much it turns up). Within Kukishin Ryu, for instance, it turns up in a variation (Sayu Gyaku) of Kiri Age, but my feeling on that is that it is more about cutting the armour off an opponent (as the cut goes up under the attackers right arm, where the cord that holds the armour together is.

Not every cut is to kill, but it is to put you in a position to kill and avoid letting yourself get killed in the meantime. There are a number of kata in Kukishin that basically are just cutting to the base of the thumb (again, where the gap would be found in the armour), which is not a killing cut, but does remove their ability to continue to attack or hold their sword.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Thanks again for the input, I figured do giri should be around the waist level for the reasons you specified, but it's good to have some confirmation on that.

I appreciate the time you've both taken to assist me.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Himura,

Looking back through your post here, there were a few things that you asked that we didn't cover, so I'll see what I can include this time.

Thanks for the clips guys.

Not a problem.

Basically my concerns with do giri are whether or not the cut is aimed at chest level, or waist level and where the point of the blade comes to a stop upon completion of the cut.

Okay, I'm going to mention where a cut stops here, the targeting we dealt with already.

Honestly, exactly where you stop with the cut changes depending on the target itself, but the basic rule is that you need to cut through the target, and that's about it (slightly past, really). Obviously if you aim to stop at the target, you won't go through it, but if you over-cut you open yourself to a counter cut, as well as leaving yourself overbalanced and unstable. I really can't give a particular point for the blade to stop, it needs to be relative to the target and cut itself.

In gyaku kesa giri (for us its a rising diagonal cut) I simply feel like I am not generating power as I rise from a lower posture. Again I am unsure whether or not the point of the blade should stop at shoulder level or if my cut should continue up past that.

I forget to ask my teacher about these things when I am around him, which is why I brought it up here.

Okay, the thing I want to bring up here is the phrase "as I rise from a lower posture". Most typically, you should be dropping into a cut, allowing your weight to be transfered into the cut. Even when standing from a kneeling posture to cut, the cut itself should see you dropping your weight.

Once of the problems with my iaito is that it feels too heavy. Other students use different brands that feel much lighter, which may be contributing to the drooping of the tip of my sword during do giri.

Too heavy is really a personal preference, however badly balanced isn't. So the question would be is the entire sword too heavy for you, or is it too tip-heavy? If the latter, I'd honestly suggest getting a new blade, probably one from Tozando. If the former, either change weapons, or work suburi in order to improve your strength and handle the weapon. For the record, I have a few different items around, and they range in weight, with my regular Iaito weighing less than my Togakure Ryu-spec steel Mogito, for instance. And when I did some tameshigiri late last year we used a rather tip-heavy weapon. So they can have some uses.

edit: while i'm at it. Here is a clip of me and my training partners performing free response with swords for our 3rd dan test:

I'm Lee, the big guy with the dark brown hair. I'd lke some constructive criticism if you don't mind. Keep in mind, I consider myself a novice swordsman, and our techniques are not prearranged and we were a real risk of actually being clobbered so I'm aware that being in a state of adrenaline burst has hindered some of our finer points. I'd just like to know if you see things that I might not at this point.

Thanks for your input!:boing1:

Hmm, I'm going to try to be as gentle as I can here. I'm going to preface this by stating for the record that I don't think methods such as this are in any way close to the realities of swordsmanship. The reasons are simply that the type of experience you show there, due to the safety concerns, tend to have people gravitate towards movements and applications that would be rather ill-advised, and I see a lot of that present there (from everyone). There are a lot of actions that are little more than dragging the sword across someone, rather than actually cutting, a high proportion of "blocking" actions (rather than the more economical, and efficient evasive cutting... although I will say that I saw that from you more than the other practitioners there), and so on. The kamae were not entirely clean, although with that form of pressure, that's understandable.

Realistically, I wouldn't look at this as being a test of your swordsmanship. However, if you look at it as a test for how you handle a high degree of pressure, with the added aspect of the weapon (which increases the adrenaline, as well as adding an extra element of danger), then it's pretty good.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Thanks for your response!
A few clairifications on my part.

Hi Himura,

Okay, the thing I want to bring up here is the phrase "as I rise from a lower posture". Most typically, you should be dropping into a cut, allowing your weight to be transfered into the cut. Even when standing from a kneeling posture to cut, the cut itself should see you dropping your weight..

When I do a cut with a rising motion, it's because I probably did a cut with a sinking motion before hand. For example I do men giri and sink my weight down as I cut, but th opponent moves and I follow up with a kesa giri from a lower posture where I must stand back up. With an ishi wara cut, we start very low and stand up as we cut down, and then perform a kiritsuke (sic?) droping our weight as we cut down.

Too heavy is really a personal preference, however badly balanced isn't. So the question would be is the entire sword too heavy for you, or is it too tip-heavy? If the latter, I'd honestly suggest getting a new blade, probably one from Tozando.

Yes, it feels like my sword is heavier in the tip than other iaito which I'm told resembles a sword made for cutting purposes, but I have practical plus I use for cutting and it feels much lighter. Perhaps it is the brand. I will likely buy a new sword once I get sufficient funds but it is up there in my priorities for training equipment.

Hmm, I'm going to try to be as gentle as I can here. I'm going to preface this by stating for the record that I don't think methods such as this are in any way close to the realities of swordsmanship. The reasons are simply that the type of experience you show there, due to the safety concerns, tend to have people gravitate towards movements and applications that would be rather ill-advised, and I see a lot of that present there (from everyone). There are a lot of actions that are little more than dragging the sword across someone, rather than actually cutting, a high proportion of "blocking" actions (rather than the more economical, and efficient evasive cutting... although I will say that I saw that from you more than the other practitioners there), and so on. The kamae were not entirely clean, although with that form of pressure, that's understandable.

Realistically, I wouldn't look at this as being a test of your swordsmanship. However, if you look at it as a test for how you handle a high degree of pressure, with the added aspect of the weapon (which increases the adrenaline, as well as adding an extra element of danger), then it's pretty good.

You make a very astute observation. Yes we were restricted to certain movements for safety purposes and in some cases to impress the crowd. We were told to perform one technique specifically making sure we blocked or deflected a few strikes to give the audience something to look at.
The test was more so a test on handeling pressure and facing a real risk of being smacked in the head with a boken than it was on good swordsmanship. You are correct on that.

Thanks for the kind words and helpful criticism, I appreciate your honesty. I didn't post to hear how great I was. I posted to learn from more experience people with no vested interest in my "feelings" about that matter. In the same way, I don't keep training to hear my instructor say how great I am, I go to hear him tell me how wrong everything is so I can fix it. How else would I get any better?