balintawak

[sercuerdasfigther]

I have a question for those of you who train in balintawak. I under stand that you don't train double stick or espada y daga,but is is there knife training in your art? secondly, what is your empty hand application like.

( I would appreciate any info, and full understand if there is anything you don't fell comfortable in sharing.)

 

[arnisador]

See here and also here. From the latter (a chat transcript):

23:27:07 [] Wanted to discuss about whether Balintawak has empty hands or is all stick--people give me different answers.

23:29:52 [] Arnisador> Official Quote from Manong Ted this last Tuesday "Balintawak Boxing? There is no such thing. Although, if you want you can apply the techniques and timing with your empty hands"
23:30:00 [] Arnisador> Clear as mudd
23:30:58 [] rich> OK, he gave me a similar answer w.r.t. empty hands and knife when I met him.
23:32:34 [] Arni, I think the official answer is just that, there is no empty hands
23:32:45 [] yet, you can always translate
23:33:00 [] That's what I understood--no empty hands, but "figure it out".

 

[san miguel eskrima]

23:40:08 [] lances is when you bait them
23:40:22 [] Lances?
23:40:30 [] so you might be late or do a back up move or make your cane available so you can get a response
23:40:38 [] Is this a Spanish term or the English word for a spear-like weapon?
23:41:14 [] I think it is Spanish or Cebuano


Hello Rich,

First off, I like this particular forum as compared to others that I have come across with. My answers are based on my personal experiences while still doing researched since 1995 travelling back and forth especially Cebu and some other parts of the Philippines.

Lances is not a Spanish nor Cebuano. The word your looking for is "HATA" to lunge or attempt in Cebuano.

There are 5 original factions in Balintawak. Many individuals are forming other factions. Each factions have a different way of showing there empty hands. But, it is still based on the particular basics of the stick movements.

One of the top students of GM Anciong Bacon, Nong Sergio Arcel calls his empty hands "HARONG". It is the same translation from the stick to empty hands. This particular method has similarities between the San Miguel Eskrima that I teach in close range. The progression is as follows abesedario, pit-al, tapi-tapi, palusot, etc..

Sinugdanan ug Kataposan,

Ramon Rubia---Magtutudlo
San Miguel Eskrima Association, USA
Doce Pares International, California Chapter

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by san miguel eskrima
. . .
Hello Rich,
. . .
Lances is not a Spanish nor Cebuano. The word your looking for is "HATA" to lunge or attempt in Cebuano.

There are 5 original factions in Balintawak. Many individuals are forming other factions. Each factions have a different way of showing there empty hands. But, it is still based on the particular basics of the stick movements.
. . .
Ramon Rubia---Magtutudlo
San Miguel Eskrima Association, USA
Doce Pares International, California Chapter

Ramon,

Thank you for the information. I am still learning the words, and which language they come from. I will ask Manong Ted Buot next week on Tuesday, the history of the usage of this word for him.


I would be interested in you history of the five main factions.

I have from Manong Ted, that there were many who trained at the club over the years.

Some being Delfin Lopez with his school in the Mambaling District, and Timor Maranga with his school in Pasil, Joe Villasin and his school in Downton Cebu, Toto Moncal, not sure where is school was, yet he is that introduced Remy Presas to Timor, and Timor introduced Remy to Anciong Bacon, and then of Course Manong Ted and his teachings at Anciongs school and also here in the States.

Any Additional information would be very appreciated.

Thank You in Advance
:asian:

 

[Wingman]

Originally posted by san miguel eskrima
23:40:08 [] lances is when you bait them
23:40:22 [] Lances?
23:40:30 [] so you might be late or do a back up move or make your cane available so you can get a response
23:40:38 [] Is this a Spanish term or the English word for a spear-like weapon?
23:41:14 [] I think it is Spanish or Cebuano

Lances is not a Spanish nor Cebuano. The word your looking for is "HATA" to lunge or attempt in Cebuano.

Hi Ramon,

I think the word is "Lansis" not lances. Lansis is a Cebuano word meaning to deceive. In the above quote, it mentioned about lances (lansis) as being used as bait. When you try to bait or lure your opponent into a trap, you have first to deceive (lansis) him. Using a feint (hata in Cebuano) is one good way of deceiving your opponent.

I could be right or wrong about the word lansis. What do you think?

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

It is as follows from the terminology sheet that Manong Ted gave me:
Lansis - fake, set up
:asian:

 

[san miguel eskrima]

Wingman,

Yes you are correct. I have heard both words used interchangeably. Nong Sergio Arcel used both words to define the tactic.

Sinugdanan ug Kataposan, Mabuhay,

Ramon Rubia--Magtutudlo
San Miguel Eskrima Association, USA
Doce Pares International, California Chapter

 

[Rocky]

To decieve it means.

The original faction of Balintawak is Balintawak, it started with Anciong, his first major split offs where Temor Maranga, and Tato Mocol. Delphane Lopez ( Ted's Uncle) never broke off. Super Kuentada, Balintawak Kuentada, and many of the Grouped Versions, I.e Dom Lopez, Jose Viliason, and a few others were the second wave after Maranga and Moncol. During moncol, and Maranga, Anciong hadn't developed Abecedario yet this is why Remy never new Abecidario until Hal Edwards and I showed him. The grouped versions are very simular to the way I teach Cuentada De mano, when doing Balintawak you will relize that many moves come out over and over, so I took these moves and turned them into 10 different drills, that build on each other. It allowes me to teach commercially and to masses. Since I made a promise toGm Buot 20 years ago that I would never basterdize his art, by teaching it in seminars or to the masses. I had to negoticate with him when I asked to teach a Balintawak class at my school. I originally wanted a class no bigger then 12 people he said 12!!! so I said 8 he said 8!!!! so I said 6???? he said well ok 6 and so I have never taken on more than 6 students in one class.

Rocky

 

[Rich Parsons]

Yes, I apologize for mis-spelling the word Lansis. LAter after I checked my Notes I saw the problem, yet others had already posted the correction.

Thank You Everyone:asian:

 

[Cuentada]

Yes, the Atillo system of Balintawak has a sub-curriculum on a style of knife fighting called Baraw Sugbu (from the Saavedra system) which GM Atillo learnt from his father.
Baraw (knife) Sugbu (Cebu) in Visaya basically translates to Hunting Knife of Cebu.

 

[sercuerdasfigther]

but no knife from bacon?

 

[san miguel eskrima]

Yes, the Atillo system of Balintawak has a sub-curriculum on a style of knife fighting called Baraw Sugbu (from the Saavedra system) which GM Atillo learnt from his father.

Cuentada,

Nong Esing Atillo learnt this knife fighting from the late Rene Capangpangan who was the top student of GM Goyong Ceniza. The current grandmaster of this system. He is fast approaching his 80's.The late Rene Capangpangan learnt the teaching phase of the knife art (hunting knife as they called it in Cebu--just like the Bowie knife in the states). The father of Nong Atillo was a friend and student of Doring Saavedra.

The original named of the art was Arnes Diablo. It was later changed to Baraw Sugbo. Supposively this particular method was the specialized knife fighting of "Tatay Insong" Saavedra (original Doce Pares founder) who taught it to his relative Simo (Simeon) Saavedra who taught it to Okit Albano then to Goyong Ceniza.

This information was provided by Dr. Ned Nepangue a student of Rene Capangpangan . He also knows Nong Atillo.


Sinugdanan ug Katapusan, Mabuhay,

Ramon Rubia---Magtutudlo
San Miguel Eskrima Association, USA
Doce Pares International, California Chapter

 

[Cuentada]

Hi Ramon,

Thanks for clarifying and going into detail. When i spoke with GM Atillo he didn't go into lineage detail just that he learnt the knife from his father who learnt from Doring....do you notice that they go to point a lot instead of slashing?