attacking with kenpo

[Flying Crane]

For those that want to go that way, let's be clear. An assault has occurred when someone makes a threat, and they have the clear and present ability to complete that threat. A person standing across the street threatening to knock your head off is exercising free speech and personal 'puffery.' A person within striking range who makes the same threat, has 'assaulted' you. A person who swings and makes contact has committed a 'battery' upon your person. An assault does not require contact, and a 'battery' is a completed 'assault.'

I appreciate that clarification. I guess I have actually been assaulted numerous times, but it never resulted in battery. It's amazing how many assaults you can actually just walk away from.

 

[MJS]

And if you are assaulted, I feel its OK to hit him or do whatever you need to do to nullify the threat and or take care of pressing concerns. Mr. Parker always said the longer you wait, the harder the situation becomes to deal with. Waiting to be a victim of battery may not be the wisest course of action once threatened.
Sean

So, if I'm reading this correctly, if the person is assaulting in the "verbal"sense, not yet making any move to physically hitting you, you're going to take a swing towards him?

Mike

 

[Touch Of Death]

So, if I'm reading this correctly, if the person is assaulting in the "verbal"sense, not yet making any move to physically hitting you, you're going to take a swing towards him?

Mike

I would act before battery; yes. That may not mean swinging but it just might.
Sean

 

[Rick Wade]

Nothing there to disagree with. Just because he's being stupid is no reason to clean his clock.

No but it never hurts to dust the clock every now and then.

V/R

Rick

 

[MJS]

I would act before battery; yes. That may not mean swinging but it just might.
Sean

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I just don't see myself taking a shot at someone because he called me an ******* or told me that they were going to kick my ***. If I did that every time someone "assaulted" me in the sense that we're talking about here, I'd have hit more people than I can count! Now, again, if the person is drawing back, reaching towards me, etc., well, thats different.

Mike

 

[Flying Crane]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I just don't see myself taking a shot at someone because he called me an ******* or told me that they were going to kick my ***. If I did that every time someone "assaulted" me in the sense that we're talking about here, I'd have hit more people than I can count! Now, again, if the person is drawing back, reaching towards me, etc., well, thats different.

Mike

I guess if someone is really telling you how they are gonna kick your *** and acting like they are about to actually try, then i'd say you are clear for liftoff.

Of course the other side of the coin is that they may have friends around who are just waiting for you to "initiate" the fight so they can all join in. And the guy may have a weapon that he is looking for an excuse to use.

I had this very thing happen, where this scrawney punk was following me down the street telling me how he and his friends were gonna "crack on you". I kept thinking that he must have a weapon but he never did pull it out if he did. It made me reluctant to do anything except keep walking and keep an eye on him. When he finally actually tried to start the fight, I looked up and saw 5 or 6 guys sprinting down the sidewalk ready to join in the fun. Rather than give them a chance to surround me, I whipped out a few choice moves of "Nike-Do" and showed them that they couldn't touch me.

 

[Zoran]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I just don't see myself taking a shot at someone because he called me an ******* or told me that they were going to kick my ***. If I did that every time someone "assaulted" me in the sense that we're talking about here, I'd have hit more people than I can count! Now, again, if the person is drawing back, reaching towards me, etc., well, thats different.

Mike

MJS, you are over thinking this. If someone is verbally assaulting you within your space, you are in danger. Not because of the verbal, but because they are in your zone. I usually back off and warn the person to keep away from me. If they enter that zone again, well that's going to be a problem. Self defense becomes a problem when a person is so close to you that you can smell how bad their breath is.

 

[jdinca]

No but it never hurts to dust the clock every now and then.

V/R

Rick

lol!

 

[jdinca]

I guess if someone is really telling you how they are gonna kick your *** and acting like they are about to actually try, then i'd say you are clear for liftoff.

Of course the other side of the coin is that they may have friends around who are just waiting for you to "initiate" the fight so they can all join in. And the guy may have a weapon that he is looking for an excuse to use.

I had this very thing happen, where this scrawney punk was following me down the street telling me how he and his friends were gonna "crack on you". I kept thinking that he must have a weapon but he never did pull it out if he did. It made me reluctant to do anything except keep walking and keep an eye on him. When he finally actually tried to start the fight, I looked up and saw 5 or 6 guys sprinting down the sidewalk ready to join in the fun. Rather than give them a chance to surround me, I whipped out a few choice moves of "Nike-Do" and showed them that they couldn't touch me.

A wise choice! Reading the situation as quickly as possible is a major key to survival and avoidance.

 

[Doc]

So, if I'm reading this correctly, if the person is assaulting in the "verbal"sense, not yet making any move to physically hitting you, you're going to take a swing towards him?

Mike

An assault has occurred when someone makes a threat, and they have the clear and present ability to complete that threat.

 

[MJS]

MJS, you are over thinking this. If someone is verbally assaulting you within your space, you are in danger. Not because of the verbal, but because they are in your zone. I usually back off and warn the person to keep away from me. If they enter that zone again, well that's going to be a problem. Self defense becomes a problem when a person is so close to you that you can smell how bad their breath is.

An assault has occurred when someone makes a threat, and they have the clear and present ability to complete that threat.

Well, maybe I am over thinking this, and maybe we all are just looking at it differently. We're all going to have different views, etc. and that does not mean that one person is right and the other is wrong. I realize, as its been made abundantly clear, that the 'assault' has occurred when someone makes the threat. Certainly, if they're within arms reach, its a good idea to be ready in the event something happens, and i'm not disputing that. As far as I'm concerned, let them say whatever they want, the fact remains that they still have not touched me. If however, they make an attempt to take a swing, make an aggressive move, etc., I certainly would not just stand there.

Again, everyone is going to have their own way of dealing with the situation presented to them. Whats going to matter the most, is making sure that you survive. If it means taking the person out, fine. If it means being able to verbally defuse the situation, and walk away without having anything thrown, thats fine too.

Mike

 

[Doc]

Well, maybe I am over thinking this, and maybe we all are just looking at it differently. We're all going to have different views, etc. and that does not mean that one person is right and the other is wrong. I realize, as its been made abundantly clear, that the 'assault' has occurred when someone makes the threat. Certainly, if they're within arms reach, its a good idea to be ready in the event something happens, and i'm not disputing that. As far as I'm concerned, let them say whatever they want, the fact remains that they still have not touched me. If however, they make an attempt to take a swing, make an aggressive move, etc., I certainly would not just stand there.

Again, everyone is going to have their own way of dealing with the situation presented to them. Whats going to matter the most, is making sure that you survive. If it means taking the person out, fine. If it means being able to verbally defuse the situation, and walk away without having anything thrown, thats fine too.

Mike

Just so you know, if a person is within arms reach of you and you wait to see them attack, you're already hit - no matter who they are.

 

[MJS]

Just so you know, if a person is within arms reach of you and you wait to see them attack, you're already hit - no matter who they are.

Thats the idea of the pre-emptive strike...to hit them as they begin to make their move, not wait until the punch is half way to your face.

 

[Doc]

Thats the idea of the pre-emptive strike...to hit them as they begin to make their move, not wait until the punch is half way to your face.

You miss my point sir. IF you wait for them to begin to strike, it is too late.

 

[MJS]

You miss my point sir. IF you wait for them to begin to strike, it is too late.

Well, let me ask you this sir: What would you do if faced with that situation? You've obviously been around the block a few more times and I'm sure you've seen quite a bit in your LEO career. I'm sure you could provide some detailed explainations, to help me understand a bit better.

Mike

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, maybe I am over thinking this, and maybe we all are just looking at it differently. We're all going to have different views, etc. and that does not mean that one person is right and the other is wrong. I realize, as its been made abundantly clear, that the 'assault' has occurred when someone makes the threat. Certainly, if they're within arms reach, its a good idea to be ready in the event something happens, and i'm not disputing that. As far as I'm concerned, let them say whatever they want, the fact remains that they still have not touched me. If however, they make an attempt to take a swing, make an aggressive move, etc., I certainly would not just stand there.

Again, everyone is going to have their own way of dealing with the situation presented to them. Whats going to matter the most, is making sure that you survive. If it means taking the person out, fine. If it means being able to verbally defuse the situation, and walk away without having anything thrown, thats fine too.

Mike

In my own experiences, I have always managed to keep the person outside actual striking range. If he moves to close the gap, then he is launching a strike. In doing so, I have (so far, knock on wood) been able to ultimately walk away from all encounters without anyone getting hurt.

 

[Doc]

Well, let me ask you this sir: What would you do if faced with that situation? You've obviously been around the block a few more times and I'm sure you've seen quite a bit in your LEO career. I'm sure you could provide some detailed explainations, to help me understand a bit better.

Mike

When someone tells you they are going to do something to you, believe it. The law recognizes that you do not have to wait for them to try to complete the act, nor are you required to retreat your ground.

We detained a man who was very angry. When we determined he had committed no crime we told him we would let him go. He than anounced he was going to go home and get his gun and come back. We advised him he wasn't coming back. He said he was. I said "no you're not because you aren't leaving." He was arrested for the threat.

Believe the threat and act accordingly. Wait for the threat to be completed and ... Well let me put it another way you may have heard from another source. "He who hesitates meditates in a horizontal position." - Ed Parker Sr.

 

[Doc]

In my own experiences, I have always managed to keep the person outside actual striking range. If he moves to close the gap, then he is launching a strike. In doing so, I have (so far, knock on wood) been able to ultimately walk away from all encounters without anyone getting hurt.

So you refuse to address the possibility someone could be close enough to hit you before they verbally announce the threat. Give it a thought, or not.

 

[Flying Crane]

So you refuse to address the possibility someone could be close enough to hit you before they verbally announce the threat. Give it a thought, or not.

No, I am very aware of the possibility. In this case he DID announce the threat but remained outside striking range but close enough that he could enter striking range if he chose to take action. I kept walking, but kept him in my vision in case he tried to make good on his threat. As he began to try to engage, that is when five or six of his friends showed up, and that is when I felt simply getting away was the most prudent thing to do. While this was the most extreme situation, I have had other experiences as well. Ultimately the antagonists did not engage, or attempted to engage ineffectually and the situation dissolved. Was I in my legal rights in these cases to drop them? Yes, I was and I appreciate your comments on that. But I chose not to and ultimately I was none the worse for it.

I am not sure I understand your comment above. Anybody walking past me could be close enough to strike me without verbally announcing it. If they do not announce it, and do not make any body language to make me suspect they may try, then they are just another person passing by on the sidewalk. I am not going to seek to engage with everyone who walks too close to me on the off chance that they may be trying to do me harm.

 

[MJS]

When someone tells you they are going to do something to you, believe it. The law recognizes that you do not have to wait for them to try to complete the act, nor are you required to retreat your ground.

So just the simple act of saying what they're going to or want to do to you, is enough grounds to strike them?

Believe the threat and act accordingly. Wait for the threat to be completed and ... Well let me put it another way you may have heard from another source. "He who hesitates meditates in a horizontal position." - Ed Parker Sr.

There have been a few instances in which the person threatened bodily harm, only to never follow through. In many cases, his verbal threats, could simply be intimidation. Should we assume this always to be the case? Not at all. Having my hands up, slightly bladed stance, is providing me with a defense/offense if that need arises.