Asking To Test

[Buka]

You're missing the point.


So it sounds like to me that in your dojo that students could sign up and test at their own discretion, whenever they were running tests. A student didn't have to wait to be told by their sensei that they could test. A student could test or not test if they wanted or didn't want to, when they were running tests of course. And it worked that way for all belts and ranks up to and including first degree black belt.

Any testing or promotion to Black Belt was separate than for underbelt ranks.

Let me ask you guys this.....is it an automatic that if a person trains in your dojo for X amount of years, they will eventually be promoted to Black Belt?

Let me ask any instructors.....do you ask your students, be it at the beginning of their journey or somewhere down the line, where they see themselves in say, five years or ten?

 

[dvcochran]

Any testing or promotion to Black Belt was separate than for underbelt ranks.

Let me ask you guys this.....is it an automatic that if a person trains in your dojo for X amount of years, they will eventually be promoted to Black Belt?

Let me ask any instructors.....do you ask your students, be it at the beginning of their journey or somewhere down the line, where they see themselves in say, five years or ten?

Nope to the first question and yes to the second.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I used to think one should not ask. Now after years and years of owning multiple schools, I don't mind one bit. I have an objective requirement model that I happily give out. Achieve this, and you can test. I also subjectively evaluate students and will move them on when I think the time is right.

If a student asks to test and is not ready yet, I will happily test them. Occasionally they rise to the challenge.

So why did you have a problem with students asking if they could test in the past? How does rank advancement at your school work?

 

[PhotonGuy]

Any testing or promotion to Black Belt was separate than for underbelt ranks.

How was it different?

Let me ask you guys this.....is it an automatic that if a person trains in your dojo for X amount of years, they will eventually be promoted to Black Belt?

None of the schools I go to or have gone to function like that.

Let me ask any instructors.....do you ask your students, be it at the beginning of their journey or somewhere down the line, where they see themselves in say, five years or ten?

Im not a head instructor but if I was I might ask my students that, and I would ask my students what they hope to get out of it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think that at this point, those that haven't answered don't plan on answering.

I want an answer from MJS

 

[PhotonGuy]

Hasn't this been asked and answered, pretty much?

I still don't think I've made my point.

 

[PhotonGuy]

If you aren't testing, that would indicate you aren't progressing... and that's something I would think you should be able to talk about at any time with your instructor.

Or maybe you just haven't signed up to test because you think you have to be told by your instructor that you can test and so you've been waiting the whole time for your instructor to tell you that you can test.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Not everybody will, no matter how many times you re-ask it. The range of answers will remain largely unchanged.

I still want an answer from MJS.
And the answers might change if I ask different questions, which is one of the problems here I haven't been asking the right questions or I haven't been asking them in the right way. Communication can be a bummer.

 

[dancingalone]

So why did you have a problem with students asking if they could test in the past? How does rank advancement at your school work?

The usual ideas behind modesty, humilty, and Sensei knows best. I think differently now.

I invite students to test when they have reached a combination of time in grade and eyeball readiness/fitness in their technique. Not everyone moves at the same rate. The vast majority of people are happy or content with this approach. If someone wants to test without my invitation, I will acommodate them. I don't make any concessions to my standards though. They need to earn it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

The usual ideas behind modesty, humilty, and Sensei knows best. I think differently now.

Well of course Sensei knows best, that's why Sensei runs the tests and that's why Sensei does the testing and that's why Sensei tells you if you passed or failed.

I invite students to test when they have reached a combination of time in grade and eyeball readiness/fitness in their technique. Not everyone moves at the same rate. The vast majority of people are happy or content with this approach. If someone wants to test without my invitation, I will acommodate them. I don't make any concessions to my standards though. They need to earn it.

Some schools run tests every few months or so and its up to the students if they want to test or not. Is that how your school works?

 

[dancingalone]

Well of course Sensei knows best, that's why Sensei runs the tests and that's why Sensei does the testing and that's why Sensei tells you if you passed or failed.

Yeah, funny how that works.

Some schools run tests every few months or so and its up to the students if they want to test or not. Is that how your school works?

As I said, students receive invitations. Not many actually refuse the opportunity to test and advance. Those that do mostly do it because they have a time conflict with something else already. No biggie. They can test next time. I run color belt exams 4x a year and a dan test 1x a year.

 

[PhotonGuy]

As I said, students receive invitations. Not many actually refuse the opportunity to test and advance. Those that do mostly do it because they have a time conflict with something else already. No biggie. They can test next time. I run color belt exams 4x a year and a dan test 1x a year.

I see, so they run tests about four times a year and whether or not a student is testing depends on whether or not they got an invitation to test.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I still don't think I've made my point.

Then maybe make a statement, rather than asking the question again. You seem to be hoping someone will post something that either makes your point, or which is contrary to your point so you can point at it and say, "See? That's what I"m talking about."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I still want an answer from MJS.
And the answers might change if I ask different questions, which is one of the problems here I haven't been asking the right questions or I haven't been asking them in the right way. Communication can be a bummer.

Who is MJS, and why not just ask them, rather than posting a question with nobody tagged in it?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Who is MJS, and why not just ask them, rather than posting a question with nobody tagged in it?

He's an old admin that i haven't seen post at all in about 2-3 years at least.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Then maybe make a statement, rather than asking the question again. You seem to be hoping someone will post something that either makes your point, or which is contrary to your point so you can point at it and say, "See? That's what I"m talking about."

Alright I will put it this way and hopefully I will make my point. Lets say there's a student whose at 1st kyu and they want to earn the rank of 1st dan. They've been at 1st kyu for the last ten years. It took them eight months to get from 2nd kyu to 1st kyu which means they'e been at the rank of 1st kyu for nine years and four months longer than they were at the rank of 2nd kyu. At this point, would it be improper for the student to say anything to their sensei about it?

Some people on this forum have mentioned that they don't care about earning rank so it makes sense that they wouldn't say anything to their sensei about it. If they're content with being at 1st kyu and they don't care about going from 1st kyu to 1st dan then they don't have any reason to say anything to their sensei about it. But Im not talking about them when Im talking about the student in the situation above. The student in the example is not you, me, or anybody on this forum, just a generic student who wants to earn 1st dan and whose been at 1st kyu for the last ten years when it took them eight months to get from 2nd kyu to 1st kyu.

The question is, would there be anything wrong with the student saying something to their sensei at that point? Ten years have passed and the student has not tested or been promoted? Would there be anything wrong with the student saying something about it to their sensei? Would there be anything wrong with the student saying something to their sensei about it well before ten years have passed?

 

[dvcochran]

Alright I will put it this way and hopefully I will make my point. Lets say there's a student whose at 1st kyu and they want to earn the rank of 1st dan. They've been at 1st kyu for the last ten years. It took them eight months to get from 2nd kyu to 1st kyu which means they'e been at the rank of 1st kyu for nine years and four months longer than they were at the rank of 2nd kyu. At this point, would it be improper for the student to say anything to their sensei about it?

Some people on this forum have mentioned that they don't care about earning rank so it makes sense that they wouldn't say anything to their sensei about it. If they're content with being at 1st kyu and they don't care about going from 1st kyu to 1st dan then they don't have any reason to say anything to their sensei about it. But Im not talking about them when Im talking about the student in the situation above. The student in the example is not you, me, or anybody on this forum, just a generic student who wants to earn 1st dan and whose been at 1st kyu for the last ten years when it took them eight months to get from 2nd kyu to 1st kyu.

The question is, would there be anything wrong with the student saying something to their sensei at that point? Ten years have passed and the student has not tested or been promoted? Would there be anything wrong with the student saying something about it to their sensei? Would there be anything wrong with the student saying something to their sensei about it well before ten years have passed?

Has this person learned anything beyond the 1st kyu curriculum? If not that answers the question.
If the person has continued to learn curriculum and simply has no desire to test, that is fine for the person but can cause a plethora of problems for the instructor and school. That is why it is simply not done.
As an aside; if this person trained to 1st kyu in a legitimate school and then left and 'trained' on their own for 9 years using only the internet, and then showed back up at a school and expected to test at some higher rank; well, that is just stupid.

 

[dancingalone]

The question is, would there be anything wrong with the student saying something to their sensei at that point? Ten years have passed and the student has not tested or been promoted? Would there be anything wrong with the student saying something about it to their sensei? Would there be anything wrong with the student saying something to their sensei about it well before ten years have passed?

In your hypothetical scenario, I don't have a problem with the student asking about his training and progression path. With that said, if 10 years have really passed without the teacher and student having a conversation of this very nature organically, there's something very, very wrong with the relationship to begin with.

All of my students are very important to me and I have over 200 at last count before COVID. I can't imagine having a student with me at 1st kyu or 1st gup for 10 years without a discussion about what I want to see from him to get him to 1st dan.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Alright I will put it this way and hopefully I will make my point. Lets say there's a student whose at 1st kyu and they want to earn the rank of 1st dan. They've been at 1st kyu for the last ten years. It took them eight months to get from 2nd kyu to 1st kyu which means they'e been at the rank of 1st kyu for nine years and four months longer than they were at the rank of 2nd kyu. At this point, would it be improper for the student to say anything to their sensei about it?

Some people on this forum have mentioned that they don't care about earning rank so it makes sense that they wouldn't say anything to their sensei about it. If they're content with being at 1st kyu and they don't care about going from 1st kyu to 1st dan then they don't have any reason to say anything to their sensei about it. But Im not talking about them when Im talking about the student in the situation above. The student in the example is not you, me, or anybody on this forum, just a generic student who wants to earn 1st dan and whose been at 1st kyu for the last ten years when it took them eight months to get from 2nd kyu to 1st kyu.

The question is, would there be anything wrong with the student saying something to their sensei at that point? Ten years have passed and the student has not tested or been promoted? Would there be anything wrong with the student saying something about it to their sensei? Would there be anything wrong with the student saying something to their sensei about it well before ten years have passed?

You've asked that question multiple ways. Folks have answered it. Why not just state the point you're trying to make, rather than continuing to ask the question?

 

[Flying Crane]

How about this: if you want to ask, then ask. See what happens.

There. Done. 16 pages later, Jeezuz.