Article: The TKD Billion Dollar Smokescreen

[GenshinKiDojo]

One would have to wonder that if someone doesn't want their page linked to ... why they would have the page up in the first place?

good point..

www.TaeKwonDoTimes.net

 

[Kacey]

ahh.. here is my debate sir.

Uh... I'm not a sir, I'm a ma'am!

your denile and badmouthing my myself degrades this "sport" you hold so highly.

why do you care? I'm sorry but it doesn't matter if you have 40 years in this sport. your the one with the bad attitude.

As I said, you are welcome to your opinion, as I am welcome to mine.

lol.. my God are you serious? I have a bad attitude.

Well... yes, I'm quite serious.

this discussion board is perfect. your all right and I should thank Mr Hubbard and his years in the sport as well.

Please, do so then, if you feel it appropriate.

with his permission I will ask to link this Martial talk TKD board to the www.TaeKwonDoTimes.net website

perfect

then you can all bicker amongst yourselfs and leave me alone.

Linking the site is up to Bob. As far as "bickering" goes - we're not bickering amongst ourselves; we are responding to your statements. You are free to make of them what you will.

your disgusting competitive nature is what drives you all. So you attack me and force me here to do what?

talk about TKD. lol

no thanks everyone already knows how I feel about it.

This is, thankfully, a free country. No one is forcing you to do anything. I fail to see how responding to your comments is a sign of a "disgusting competitive nature"; however, if that is your opinion, it is obvious from your statements that nothing that I or anyone else can say will change your opinion.

The facts are what backs up it being 100% sport sir.

not the fact that is was created in the 60's it doesn't matter.

lies, deceit and more marketing lies. That is the true TKD way.

www.Taekwondograndmasters.net

and

www.Taekwondochildren.com

are two other great websites

As long as you're happy with yourself, I see no reason why you feel it necessary to impose your opinion on the rest of us. You have chosen a particular viewpoint and interpretation that is different from mine - that is your option. Maintaining my viewpoint despite your obvious disagreement is my option.

feel free to continue bad mouthing me and bashing me as I will not return to this site.

Really? You're going to leave and not come back? I can but hope you are telling the truth this time, I suppose.

 

[GenshinKiDojo]

Mr. Whitney Sir,

I will try to ask you a few question if you do not mind, if you have never ever trained in TKD how cah you make the assumption that TKD is only about the sport? Secondly I have meet and had decussion with Exile, he has a lot of info. about TKD combat application and yes I have trained over there in the sixties and seventies so I know first hand what I'm talking about. If you take the time to investigate what TKD was before the sport then you would know, as far as asking Joon Rhee, I have personnally meet him and he can tell you about the combat application as well.

You come on here talking about things you have never experience in my Art and yes I said my Art not sport, I have been training in TKD one way or another for over thirty years and your comments and so call experience lack in the field of my Art. So may I suggest you go back and learn what you think you know and actually find the truth you are seeking.

May I also ask why is this so important to you if the Art or sport of TKD is not in your training diary, are you looking for a grat teacher, are you trying to become better rounded as a person in whole? or the last which you have said to exile are you a troll looking just to cause problems?

My guess it is the latter rather the first.

I wish you peace and harmony in your life.
Train hard and often.
Master Stoker

No I'm not a troll. I was forced here by a TKD person that wished to badmouth my Martial Arts business.

www.TaeKwonDoTimes.net

 

[The Master]

Ah, Welcome to the InterWeb. The place where the brave hide in plain site, and he who has the higher Google Page Rank is the correct one.

In my many years on this wonderful communications medium, I have noticed a very much true fact. One who can not communicate in a mature and respectful manner online often is just as much an ignoramus in real life, be it through the hand written medium of letter or the verbal medium of that great device of Mr. Bells. So when one who claims the high ground claims "if you ever wish to be a civil person and talk like an adult email me and we can have peaceful discussions." I look at their own words. In this case, the original writer of those words seems unlikely to be any more capable of mature conversation offline as he is on line.

Oh, and I am not a "TKDer" though I would expect the closed minded individual who would declare me as such to not believe. But that is why I am The Master and he is not.

 

[GenshinKiDojo]

With email does your ego get out of the way? Do you suddenly become courteous, patient and discplined? Do you become more like that which you demand of others, but lack in yourself?

Given your insults and poor behavior in this thread, I don't blame anyone for not emailing you and giving up their own email address. If you do this in a public forum, what should they expect in return in their inbox or on a telephone?

good luck to you if you ever bad mouth someone on the street.

do you know how it feels to be shot in the head?

That is what the TKD ego will teach you, but it's a lesson a little too late if you wait to learn it.

www.TaeKwonDoTimes.net

 

[GenshinKiDojo]

Ah, Welcome to the InterWeb. The place where the brave hide in plain site, and he who has the higher Google Page Rank is the correct one.

In my many years on this wonderful communications medium, I have noticed a very much true fact. One who can not communicate in a mature and respectful manner online often is just as much an ignoramus in real life, be it through the hand written medium of letter or the verbal medium of that great device of Mr. Bells. So when one who claims the high ground claims "if you ever wish to be a civil person and talk like an adult email me and we can have peaceful discussions." I look at their own words. In this case, the original writer of those words seems unlikely to be any more capable of mature conversation offline as he is on line.

Oh, and I am not a "TKDer" though I would expect the closed minded individual who would declare me as such to not believe. But that is why I am The Master and he is not.

Hello,

well I must disagree with you there sir. I like to talk in a forum where 20 people are not bashing my business to get even with my perspectives if I say something they don't like. That is the case here.

so, I offer to gladly talk to anyone, but TKD people twist the truth once again and say "he must want your email, why email or call if we talk here"

Perfect example. look at how I started off in my first reply. Also look at the person and see the disrespect for my request. I answered questions, I was peaceful and came here because Mr. Hubbard allowed my business to be slandered. (he then removed the material - after seeing it)

so I have angry brainwashed people attacking me and my business.

I offered an alternative way to talk, but again the truth gets twisted.

I walk away from this site and instand backstabbing by TKD people and slanderous remarks about me.

This thread was closed last night and Now it's open again.

I never said I am always right. I state facts.. and I say FACT!!!!!!

I state a perspective and it's PERSPECTIVE.. so how is that being right all the time?

 

[MJS]

Admin Note:

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=427486. Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

-Mike Slosek
-MT Asst. Admin-

 

[Bob Hubbard]

From Wiki: ""Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, internet blogging and the like, then it is considered libel."

MartialTalk has a posted copyright policy which we enforce (as a number of people will attest to.)

Posting a link to a website is not illegal. If it were, Google would be in big trouble. Websites regularly link to other websites. No permission is needed, and no laws are broken. Court cases have established the legality of "deep linking" into any page of a website. Take away the ability to link and you take away the basic glue that makes the Web work. You'd have no Yahoo, no Google , no blogs, etc.

Posting a link, referencing the content contained there, and commenting is not illegal. It may however be defamatory, which can place the poster in jeopardy, if the subject can prove damages as a result. If contacted we will comply with court orders. But we don't just hand over records or censor content because someone demanded it. We have told several lawyers and at least 2 law enforcement agencies no due to lack of properly executed paperwork over the years. We've also had several idiots claim to be lawyers contact us. That tends to be bad for them.

The above is what I posted.

Mr. Hubbard,

I guess I really shouldn't be surprised. after all it is your website here.

Yes it is.

Can you be the adult of all the TKD people here and if you have anything to say to me contact me instead of being a child like the rest here.

I have been the Adult here, when you have not.
This is a discussion board. That means, it is for discussion.
I have nothing to say privately to you on this matter.

you want discussion on this website about the smokescreen. what is driving you?

Ms. Daisy.

in addition WHY? are you attacking me personally?

I have not attacked you at all here. I have stated facts of law and legal definitions as well as publicly posted that should you wish to seek damages, that we would comply with properly done court orders. That is all.

Tae kwon Doist all lie - that is my perspective.

You are entitled to your perspective, as are everyone else here to theirs.

the facts? Tae Kwon Do was NEVER a Martial art. thats the fact.

That is your OPINION. Back it up with independently verifiable facts with out all the venom you are spewing towards anyone who disagrees with you, and you might find a warmer reception here.

The other facts sir? look at

www.TaeKwonDoTimes.net

I'm more interested in seeing scholastic studies by reputable martial arts historians, archaeological evidence as well as first person accounts over the centuries.

How about since this thread was closed last night by the Tae kwon Do Owner Mr. Hubbard. that we leave it alone and closed.

No where in my profile do I list any training nor interest in any of the Korean arts. How you come to the conclusion that I am somehow involved in TKD I don't know. If you want it to die, then drop the battle and move on.

 

[The Master]

No I'm not a troll. I was forced here by a TKD person that wished to badmouth my Martial Arts business.

www.TaeKwonDoTimes.net

Karma. Ying-Yang. Reciprocal Controversy Theorem.

In this thread, you are the one showing bad form, levelling insults and blanket condemning individuals. I have seen a great deal of restraint on the part of the staff here toward you so far. If this was my site, I don't believe it would have been kid gloves. You were not forced here, nor are you required to continue to blindly flail at those you see as your enemy. You have choice. You will always have those who disagree with your views. Unless they are standing outside your facilities in a sandwich board bullhorn in hand, I fail to see how a disagreeing opinion will deny you your living.

You may have your view, parts of which I may in fact agree with. However, that point is where we must diverge as my preference is a higher level of intellectual debate than that found in this thread.

Good day.

John Racheim

 

[Sukerkin]

I can see I shall have to re-read this thread again to find all these obnoxious posts you've referenced many times; I missed them the first time through.

Some advice, if you'll take it - noone ever wins an argument on the Net, not even if they are polite, eloquent and erudite to a Newtonian level.

For myself, I've had a few threads here where I've been on the 'naysaying' side of the point when it somes to the history of Korean arts and it was wisely pointed out in those discourses that being convinced that you're right will change nothing, no matter how clearly you make your point.

Sage words in the Confucian mode as the Net is a marvellous place to gather with people you agree with and a terrible one to argue with those you don't (because you can never settle anything).

 

[GenshinKiDojo]

you made a website dedicated to attacking millions of peoples hobby and are asking why people are attacking you?



Well not everyone can sleep standing up can they?



No, that's your opinion, which is not a very common one.



I see no facts, just assertions and opinions. So in the spirit of wikipedia which you mention in there "[citation needed]"

Tae kwon do is a martial art, one of the most practised ones in the world. Just because you define "martial art" in your own way to exclude everyone that doesn't do what you do does not make it so.

In fact, I would bet that under many peoples understanding of the term your attitude towards other systems and unwillingness to stand by your opinions in public view would go very much against the spirit of martial arts training.

I see, yes it's fine to disagree. I could talk to you for hours on why TKD is a "sport" only. There are facts, but then my perspectives as well.. I mention both and don't lie about either or.

Wikipedia is a dictonary of half lies sir. make up a word - and then put it up there.

Other Martial arts, I don't have anything against sir. There are pros and cons in many styles. MMA is another ballgame..

so I keep my mouth shut at the moment. Martial arts are not the same as Martial sport. They never were. it is possible to test your skill without fighting in a ring - like two caged rats.

History facts say what? TKD is from 50 BC.. some do.. 100% not true.

* sigh - head beating against the wall *

ok.. so we disagree. The deal here is Jhoon Rhee NEEDS to come clean.. and park in NJ needs to come clean about how he lied in his book in 1989. a false book of mis information.

 

[GenshinKiDojo]

The above is what I posted.



Yes it is.



I have been the Adult here, when you have not.
This is a discussion board. That means, it is for discussion.
I have nothing to say privately to you on this matter.



Ms. Daisy.



I have not attacked you at all here. I have stated facts of law and legal definitions as well as publicly posted that should you wish to seek damages, that we would comply with properly done court orders. That is all.



You are entitled to your perspective, as are everyone else here to theirs.



That is your OPINION. Back it up with independently verifiable facts with out all the venom you are spewing towards anyone who disagrees with you, and you might find a warmer reception here.



I'm more interested in seeing scholastic studies by reputable martial arts historians, archaeological evidence as well as first person accounts over the centuries.



No where in my profile do I list any training nor interest in any of the Korean arts. How you come to the conclusion that I am somehow involved in TKD I don't know. If you want it to die, then drop the battle and move on.

Hi Bob,

Thank you for being kind in your replies.

My verifiable facts are the Korean Government and Jhoon Rhee can shed some light on this for anyone I'm sure. Maybe Mr. Park or Kim? no doubt.

I agree with you. everyone is entitled to their opinions. I know fact and state it and also experience and opinion and state those as well.

I originally came on this board only to have my information removed - I can really care less what Tae kwon Doist believe as I think they feel the same and could care less what I believe and the truth.

regardless. I would like to appologize to you for being a bit testy and thank you for replying in such a nice manner and respectfully (regardless of our perspectives)

 

[Andrew Green]

I see, yes it's fine to disagree. I could talk to you for hours on why TKD is a "sport" only. There are facts, but then my perspectives as well.. I mention both and don't lie about either or.

And I on why sports arts are far superior to ones lacking a sport component. Just opinions.

Wikipedia is a dictonary of half lies sir. make up a word - and then put it up there.

It's an encyclopaedia, not a dictionary. Yes, you could make up a word and start a article, it would be promptly deleted as your claims about TKD where and for pretty much the same reason.

Other Martial arts, I don't have anything against sir. There are pros and cons in many styles. MMA is another ballgame..

Well, MMA is what I do, so why not enlighten me?

so I keep my mouth shut at the moment. Martial arts are not the same as Martial sport. They never were. it is possible to test your skill without fighting in a ring - like two caged rats.

Of course, there are many ways to test your skill. However if one wants to test ones skill at fighting, well, you have to fight. The ring is one place this can be done, but it is not for everyone.

History facts say what? TKD is from 50 BC.. some do.. 100% not true.

Isshin ryu is also full of historical mistruths, and that is what you list as your style. In fact, some of the things you have about it on your own website are not true.

ok.. so we disagree. The deal here is Jhoon Rhee NEEDS to come clean.. and park in NJ needs to come clean about how he lied in his book in 1989. a false book of mis information.

Yet you where ok putting up that website which is full of half-truths and and attacks on the entire style anonymously? Of course no one is really anonymous on the internet, especially when you put up a website.

Where does all this hatred come from?

 

[crushing]

good luck to you if you ever bad mouth someone on the street.

Why thank you. Good luck to you too. You will need it more than I. Not because of the possible difference martial arts skills, but because of the likelyhood of engaging in such behavior.

do you know how it feels to be shot in the head?

I don't think so. But maybe being shot in the head would cause someone to forgot how it felt to be shot in the head, or forget that he had been shot in the head in the first place? Do you suggest I check with my doctor?

That is what the TKD ego will teach you, but it's a lesson a little too late if you wait to learn it.

 

[Mr. E]

I have simply logged on tonight to ask all of you to please have the respect to not list my Dojo and name in this thread or any others without first asking me.

You have posted an article about TKD that is very rude and misinformed. Why should you be able to talk about an art you know little about and do not study and yet feel you should be able to get others to stop talking about you?

It goes both ways.

Just from the start I will let you know that I have not been in a TKD Dojang since disco music was popular. It is not for me. My choice is to just not talk about or read up on TKD.

But I must say that your behavior here has shown the entire world that you lack discipline and maturity. There is not a single person here that thinks that you are higher on the scale of life than pond scum. You can't blame anyone else for that. You brought it on yourself.

I looked at your web site and found it to be rather amusing. I would venture that you are trying to project your own sins onto an entire art. A lad as young as you with only a smattering of training setting himself up as a soke is rather amusing. To cover up your lack of experience it seems you choose to attack other arts as if you were in a position to judge. So it seems that you should try to perfect yourself in both your charecter and your knowledge before you try to push your ill- informed opinions on the rest of the world.

Again, I have no horse in this race. I am merely pointing out that from the view of someone coming into this debate from the outside that you have done yourself no favors in the way you act and behave.

 

[terryl965]

Hi Bob,

Thank you for being kind in your replies.

My verifiable facts are the Korean Government and Jhoon Rhee can shed some light on this for anyone I'm sure. Maybe Mr. Park or Kim? no doubt.

I agree with you. everyone is entitled to their opinions. I know fact and state it and also experience and opinion and state those as well.

I originally came on this board only to have my information removed - I can really care less what Tae kwon Doist believe as I think they feel the same and could care less what I believe and the truth.

regardless. I would like to appologize to you for being a bit testy and thank you for replying in such a nice manner and respectfully (regardless of our perspectives)

Thus I find funny Mr. Rhee can shed what light, I have known him for years. You keep talking about facts but to this day you have provided nothing in the means of facts. You sir have never trained in TKD or in Korea by your own admission, so I'm confused about facts that you have. As far as e-mailing you why this forum is a great place to provide info. if you have it. I assume you do not and that is why you cannot provide.
Martial Artist as to yourself are a dime a dozen come on and say something without anything to back it up but personal opinion. I guess the ROK was a made up piece of the military as well. Sir I wish to truely understand your point of view but you will not provide anything to view so how can we try to uinderstand your point of view.
Respectfully yours
Master Stoker

 

[GenshinKiDojo]

You have posted an article about TKD that is very rude and misinformed. Why should you be able to talk about an art you know little about and do not study and yet feel you should be able to get others to stop talking about you?

It goes both ways.

Just from the start I will let you know that I have not been in a TKD Dojang since disco music was popular. It is not for me. My choice is to just not talk about or read up on TKD.

But I must say that your behavior here has shown the entire world that you lack discipline and maturity. There is not a single person here that thinks that you are higher on the scale of life than pond scum. You can't blame anyone else for that. You brought it on yourself.

I looked at your web site and found it to be rather amusing. I would venture that you are trying to project your own sins onto an entire art. A lad as young as you with only a smattering of training setting himself up as a soke is rather amusing. To cover up your lack of experience it seems you choose to attack other arts as if you were in a position to judge. So it seems that you should try to perfect yourself in both your charecter and your knowledge before you try to push your ill- informed opinions on the rest of the world.

Again, I have no horse in this race. I am merely pointing out that from the view of someone coming into this debate from the outside that you have done yourself no favors in the way you act and behave.

www.TaeKwondotimes.net

it does go both ways - I push nothing on the world. Tae kwon Do has falsified history and lied to the world. Are you proud of that? I suppose that is acceptable.

Ask Jhoon Rhee since people claim to know him so well on here.

If you are a Tae Kwon Doist, that does not make you a Martial artist. It makes you a Martial sportist.

yes Karma does find it's way to everyone. That is why I tell people the truth about TaeKwonDo.

Seems as though a few of the super senior Great Grandmaster moderators on this forum are getting a little testy themselves.

lol - pond scum? OMG thanks. I guess I deserve that for agreeing that all TaeKwondoist are exactly like Nazi and the Tae kwon Do pioneers are perfect examples of Hitler.

It's such a sad situation. Men, women and children - exactly like World War 2 with the Nazi. They thought they were the best in the world and Hitler brainwashed all of these people. Some were innocent. Sickening thinking about it isn't it?

How about a role reversal? Why don't you give me proof of why TKD is a Martial art? lol

Lets go to Korea and see what the Government documents say shall we?

 

[Andrew Green]

all TaeKwondoist are exactly like Nazi and the Tae kwon Do pioneers are perfect examples of Hitler.

Godwin's Law show's up even in places that you have no reason at all to expect it...

 

[GenshinKiDojo]

Thus I find funny Mr. Rhee can shed what light, I have known him for years. You keep talking about facts but to this day you have provided nothing in the means of facts. You sir have never trained in TKD or in Korea by your own admission, so I'm confused about facts that you have. As far as e-mailing you why this forum is a great place to provide info. if you have it. I assume you do not and that is why you cannot provide.
Martial Artist as to yourself are a dime a dozen come on and say something without anything to back it up but personal opinion. I guess the ROK was a made up piece of the military as well. Sir I wish to truely understand your point of view but you will not provide anything to view so how can we try to uinderstand your point of view.
Respectfully yours
Master Stoker

beautiful website you have.

wow I get a school of TaeKwonDo Masters to assult me via internet discussions. How wonderful!

Mr. Rhee can tell us all why he lied thats what?

He can tell the world the truth about TKD and clear up the false facts so his soul will be free and clean.

So TKD is not for me. my choice. I will NEVER allow a lying TKD instructor to mislead someone by telling them they are being taught an ancient art from 50 BC or it's a Martial art.

hmnn.. I have seen this for over 30 years, heard the lies and witnessed the deception.

ask Mr. Park in NJ how he tried to control all Martial arts with the TKD regulations. How is that not like Hitler? TKD pioneers, control Chinese Kung Fu, Japanese styles and anything considered a martial art.

hmnn, I guess that's ok to do that. Opps I have no proof. Wrong - read:

www.TaeKwonDoTimes.net

get the bill numbers and see for yourself.

 

[GenshinKiDojo]

Godwin's Law show's up even in places that you have no reason at all to expect it...

lol sorry perfect comparison so I needed to reference that.

If you really did know anything at all about Tae Kwon Do you would know exactly what I'm talking about.