Are you really training for self defense?

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by KPM, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    What I meant, in what context? What is your reference? Are you referring to the place where I said that, if you cannot use you style of fighting, in a deadly way, that it is worthless? Well it is worthless, if you cannot use it for a deadly force encounter. What is next, define deadly force for you?

    I would be returning the favor, I carry a knife and an aluminum stick, everywhere I go. And if anyone stabs me anywhere, with an ice pick, I will kill him.
    That is lawful self-defense, in most of America; or it is in Florida, West Virginia and Kentucky.
     
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  2. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    HOW did I lose you? How could you possibly not know what I meant? Would you care to elaborate on that?
     
  3. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Whether it's a lawful course of action is irrelevant really.

    So someone goes for a punch, your response is to "just grab him around the neck" and attempt a pile driver...

    Firstly, yeah, alright, of course that'll work.

    So then while you're trying that, he stabs you.

    I don't rate your chances very high of being capable of your stick and knife based divine retribution.

    With respect, your attitude so far of "I don't need no schoolin' to do it", while referring to techniques you've seen in (probably choreographed) TV entertainment doesn't do your stated age justice - need to subtract 50.
     
  4. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    Tell me about some of your fights and I will tell you about some of mine, I think that you have not had any. But, I could be wrong.
    You have taken a single point and over-emphasized it, to the point of making yourself asinine.
    Allow me to make some points: I have won fights and I have lost fights; any fighter has, but I assure you that I remain a fighter. You are blowing smoke.
     
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  5. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Have you hacked my phone camera??? :eek:
     
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  6. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    I can't believe some people, blowing smoke is a metaphor for.........oh, oh.... uh wait a minute....I get it!
     
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  7. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    In a way you're right, I haven't been caught up in anything you'd likely consider a fight.

    Anything that could have become a fight I've managed to avoid or talk down - and the few times that hasn't worked what has worked was instant and extreme escalation of threat of violence.

    But that's irrelevant really, because I still know there's a busload more to a pile driver than "just grab them around the neck".

    I mean, I could say "I'll just kick them in the head", but I know that unless everything falls into place (by chance or design) that's hugely unlikely.
     
  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is doable because it is mostly just a guillotine or front headlock. And then you stuff their head between your legs and lift.

    But it is a long way to go about throwing someone.
     
  9. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Didn't say it was impossible.

    Unlikely without training though (TV doesn't count as training) and even less likely if the opponent doesn't present the opportunity.
     
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  10. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Elaborate? I already did in my conversation with Drop Bear on the previous page, running from post 143 through 153. Check out post 152 in particular.
    Basically I was flummoxed by your use of professional wrestling as source! :confused:

    BTW this is the Wing Chun sub-forum. Much earlier you mentioned something about being old and stiff. If that's so, wouldn't something like Wing Chun offer you more useful material than pro-wrestling? Just a thought.:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  11. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    I have attended and watched pro wrestling, and those monsters could rip a man in two, IMHO. I will have to go back and read post 142-153, with emphasis on 152, to get my story straight.
    However, whether this is the Wing Chung sub-forum, or a gun/knife forum immaterial to me. The topic is Are You Really Training For Self Defense? My answer is yes I am, and if that is your answer as well, then we are simpatico on that.
    Training for a deadly attack & the defense against that, is very serious business. And I take it that way, but I can be a drama king sometimes. I have some training in wrestling and Tae Kwon Do, and I feel competent enough to talk about any style of fighting. Call me reckless if you like.
     
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  12. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    Yeah, what he said! See, I ain't the only one.
    A good wrassler can break yer neck, and that is a good thing to keep in mind. And this video demonstrates what I have said in some of my posts, in this thread.
    It can all end with getting dropped on your head; and if you get killed by such a move, don't say that I did not warn you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 4:50 PM
  13. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    You could reselve the vast majority of self defense sireps with the little mans move, I watched that video, and he decks that bigger guy. It was a work of art.
     
  14. WcForMe

    WcForMe Yellow Belt

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    Interesting read this post,

    It's such a large subject self defence. In my experience I've personally done descalation techniques. Once being a victim of a road rage incident is Ann example. All I did was get out of the car, stood to the side of the guy because there's no way I'm standing straight on at him, with my hands in a non threatening position but close to guard as possible and noticing his car was full of tools such as hammers, chisels, general building tools that could kill you. To escalate that situation could possibly end in death or being stabbed or hit with a hammer I decided to talk him down. The guy probably had a bad day, lost his contract for work or something and lost his mind over the fact he didn't see I had my indicator on.

    On the flip side I've done the escalate the situation until the person backs down technique too. It's just reading the situation and the person before action is taken. There are people that no matter what you do want to fight. There are those than can be talked down because it's brovardo.

    No matter where you live anything can happen. I've had guns to my head, knives to my thoart, been jumped by two guys. All of those was because I ran an off license in a small village in England. Personally I've never froze in these situations. Fight or flight is bred into all of us. It's a natural survival instinct.

    However I'm terrified of heights. A few years ago I went on a ski lift and got so scared I didn't talk for a whole day. I was shaking like a leaf for maybe 3 hours. You never really know how you will react until the situation happens regardless of training. The ski lift situation scared me so much, I was so shocked I reacted that badly due to all the violently encounters I have had in my life and I couldn't deal with a cable car what the hell!

    As stated reading the room, reading people and environment and get the hell out before something happens Is my best policy. Not because I'm soft because I'm sensible. However threaten my life or my loved ones is a big difference from the rowdy guy at the pub and you accidentally spilt his drink.

    If it gets to the point where a fight Is going to happen and your posturing up pushing and shoving, running your mouth that situation can be dealt with without violence in my opinion. But getting sucker punched or jumped is totally different.

    Recently there was a terror attack in London and a man stabbed a policeman to death and Injured 33 other people while another policeman sat in a car and watched it happen. Now before you say I'd be there and stop it happening. A guy with 2 big kitchen knives covered in blood is killing people in front of you, screaming as he does it, you have no weapons are you the one to act? Or will you do nothing because you want to live and see your family again?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018 at 10:54 AM
  15. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, without knowing the particulars of the law in Florida, West Virginia, or Kentucky, I can say that it depends. You do get to defend yourself, which might include stabbing him in return and killing him. But if your assailant stabs and runs then he is no longer a threat to you and I do not believe that you get to chase him down and kill him. That would make you the aggressor, and you can be prosecuted. So don’t fool yourself into believing it is more simple than it is.
     
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  16. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    The pieces of life's puzzle must be insoluble to you. You cannot use inference, and you cannot use logic, and yet you sit there and tell me that I will become the aggressor.

    Stabbing is a very serious felony, and anyone is justified to use deadly force, against the attacker if it happens to them. That is English Common Law, and so is pursuit of a felon.

    What do you know about any of this? [I would be very justified to pursue them, if they ran and place them under citizens arrest. And If it turned into kill or be killed, then let it be that.]
     
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  17. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    What do I know about this? Well...

    My father-in-law is a criminal defense attorney, as was my wife for about 17 years until she recently decided to change her career.

    My brother was a prosecutor with the US Army JAG corps.

    While I am not an attorney, I have worked in the legal industry for about 24 years so I’ve been around the discussions for a long time.

    I hope I don’t need to start sending you postcards to a prison address.
     
  18. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Where is all the hostility coming from?

    Deadly force MAY be justifiable IF you stabbed him in the middle of the conflict while he was trying to stab you. If he is directly attacking you and your life is being threatened, you can defend yourself and deadly force MAY be justifiable.

    But again, if he disengages and runs off, he is no longer a direct threat to you. You do not get to chase him down and kill him. That is vigilanteism and also revenge, and the law frowns on that behavior. You can be prosecuted.

    Postcards...
     
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  19. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    What about you? I did not ask what your relatives do: I asked, what did you know about it? In my lowly eyes you are all mouth, one who has never fought; and never will stain its delicate hands, in a fight. [Why fight when you can dial 911, and run away?]

    You are an onlooker, and that is it, and you will never matter in a fight. Do you drive a large PU, so that you can feel manly? As for me, I have put up with yapping mutts all of my life, and you are just one more. If any of this gets me banned or shunned, then I never needed your company to begin with.

    Why are you on this forum? Why? You are a paper tiger.
     
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  20. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    My hostility is coming from a fount of contempt. I was acquitted in 2 cases of using force, and I have heard the punky vigilantism schtick before.
    If you get held up, it would be poetic! What would you do, stand there and contemplate?
     
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