Are the sweeps used in free sparring in any kata?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Acronym, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    You see some of it here.


     
  2. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    I don't believe those two "sweeps" are in Shotokan kata, as demonstrated. However, all the skills necessary to do those are practiced quite a bit in the katas.

    The one at 30 seconds, where he catches the kick and sweeps... The hand going into chamber is the hand catching the kick, while the "punching" hand is reaching for lapel / gi / upper body control. The sweep is then an application of the low front stance walking that is done in nearly all the katas. The better you can do the low front stance walking forward and backward, the better you will be at that particular sweep.

    The first one was more a throw coming from a turn with good stance and power. These are all over the katas... that was one application of a 180 degree turn, which shows up a lot in the katas. Again, the better you are at turning with good balance and structure, the better that throw is.

    There are other ways to learn both of those. I learned them both in jujitsu and was decent at them, without ever studying a karate kata. Now that I have been training Shotokan Karate... I have noticed these throws (and most of my other throws) have gotten significantly better. Most of that is due to better structure from the katas... not from the free sparring or self defense or bunkai work.
     
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  3. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    I did not watch the video, but anyone interested can look at the nami-ashi geri in Naihanchi/Tekki Shodan and decide if sweeping is an application they want to train from the kata.
     
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  4. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Where do sweeps in Shotokan and Goju Ryu sparring come from if it's not directly from a Kata?
     
  5. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Where is the move that can be translated to a sweep?

     
  6. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Nami ashi geri. Look it up.
     
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  7. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    The sweeps are a direct application of the principles, skills and movement trained in the katas. To view kata as a dictionary of all the techniques in an art is a very limited view of kata. And it significantly limits your view of the art.
     
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  8. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    I won't venture to answer directly this question as phrased, but one of the first kata in Goju-ryu has a foot sweep. Gekisai Dai Ichi.
     
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  9. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Offhand I do not remember sweeps in any of the forms I know. I will say that was some good and legit sparring. Good video.
     
  10. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Yes it was.
     
  11. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    OK so that covers Goju. Still wonder why Shotokan has it.
     
  12. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Done. There's no use of the arms.
     
  13. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Not certain what you mean by 'has it'. It is a common skill in Shotokan.
     
  14. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    I mean in their free sparring rules.
     
  15. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    OK.

    For anyone else interested in the topic, do your research. It's true you have to follow a certain training methodology and progression path with partner drills before you see things. It's not for everyone - those needing a literal translation, I suggest just training without kata and forms and going straight to a fighting gym.
     
  16. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    You haven't even watched the clip in the OP. Do that first. Do you think that flows naturally from the curricilum?
     
  17. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Nah. Waste of my time. If you don't see it, that is fine.

    I'm really talking more to other people. They should be aware a sweep is a common application for nami ashi geri as cataloged in Naihanchi/Tekki and if they want to train it in that way they need to see out the proper teacher and methodology to make it work.
     
  18. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    Yeah I don't see any pulls in the katas, which usually accompany the foot.

    So that's why I'm interested how it became a scoring technique in Shotokan.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  19. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    You might be more happy doing MMA or kickboxing. Nothing wrong with it. You can learn to be a fighter very quickly with the right coaching.
     
  20. Acronym

    Acronym 2nd Black Belt

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    What does that have to do with my inquiry?123
     

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