Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Hanzou, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    5,811
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Southeast U.S.
    How am I being dishonest? You pointed out something I said. I apologized for it. So in your world that is being dishonest? That is some strange viewpoint. C'mon man.
    Make sure your next picture is of you walking on water.
     
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    183
    I'm not sure if they're TKD or TSD, but either way, sport competition is pretty darned common in the Korean arts, including WT TKD being in the NCAA and Olympics. Holding up a photograph of TKD and TSD as an example of people who don't engage in competitive sports is an odd choice.

    You seem to be equating "sport" with "fighting to KO or submission and nothing else." That's not what sport means. TKD is sport. Point karate is sport. Fencing is sport. You don't have to look like a UFC heavyweight to be an athlete on a sport.
     
  3. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    868
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Well keep in mind, I didn’t say they weren’t competitive, I said that they look like a group who aren’t pressure testing their art. There’s a big difference.

    Beyond that, they could be a TKD or TSD group who doesn’t compete as well. Those also exist. They tend to be participants in videos such as these;



    Notice the similar uniforms....
     
  4. Mitlov

    Mitlov Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Pressure testing your abilities in your sport, and pressure testing your style versus other styles in multi-style competition, are two entirely different issues. And this thread, I thought, was about sport styles where athletes pressure test their abilities in sport, versus noon-sport styles where they don't.

    If you don't know what the style the people in the photo do, and whether they compete in sport, and whether they compete in multi-sport open tournaments, what's the point in posting their picture at all? Shaming teenage girls and 50-somethings for not looking like a group of 22-year-old male heavyweights?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    868
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Yes, and the person I was responding to with that picture was talking about non-sport styles being more applicable in more scenarios than styles that have a sport element. Also Bjj athletes tend to compete against other Bjj athletes.

    Again, to be fair, the Bjj people in that pic are all middle aged, and they're not heavyweights. They just look like 22-year olds because they're competitors in a martial art that revolves around pressure testing. The guy in the front with the white gi was in his mid 30s when that pic was taken, and he's a welterweight, not a heavyweight.

    Also there's a female in the Bjj picture.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    3,135
    Likes Received:
    716
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    There's nobody as deluded as you.
     
  7. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    3,135
    Likes Received:
    716
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    There's something to be said for cherry picking. The content of that video bears little resemblance to how most competent traditional martial arts training looks like. Most TMA schools would agree that those practitioners were of poor quality.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    5,811
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Southeast U.S.
    So, someone in their 30's are middle aged? Yea, that answers a lot about your posts.
    And you think All those guys do is train BJJ. Gotta call BS on that one.
    Look, up until I was 38 I was that guy. I get it and I Love the driven feeling to be 'that guy'. It is a good thing. Is is Everything? No, of course not. But from your ranting that seems to be the case for you. So has BJJ done enough for you to put you in that picture? What other training are you doing?
     
  9. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,759
    Likes Received:
    4,273
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    To be fair, the top group looks like a typical group of hobbyist martial artists and the bottom group is a bunch of world class professional athletes who would easily dominate not only an average hobbyist BJJ black belt, but also most competitive BJJ black belts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    17,782
    Likes Received:
    3,583
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Good point. Though if you go to google, do a search for BJJ schools (or MMA, or Muay Thai, or Boxing, etc), and look at the pictures of the students, they tend to look competent (and usually also sweaty). Even the kids. Don't take my word for it.

    Note, that this is not a BJJ-centric post.
     
  11. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    868
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Well that was the point. The person I was originally responding to was saying that hobbyists like those would be more prepared for a violent encounter than those BJJ athletes.
     
  12. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    868
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Well life expectancy in the US is about 75-78, so yeah someone in their mid to late 30s would be (on average) halfway to the cemetery.

    Hey, I'm just saying that athletes like that have an advantage on hobbyist who train once or twice a week.
     
  13. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,759
    Likes Received:
    4,273
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Yeah, but the meme image in question is clearly aiming to identify BJJ with the pro athletes and other arts (in this case KMA practitioners, judging from the uniforms) with the casual hobbyists. If the meme was just aiming to celebrate the prowess of pro athletes vs casuals in general then the top image could be BJJ hobbyists or the bottom picture could show Olympic TKD gold medalists.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    19,699
    Likes Received:
    4,989
    Trophy Points:
    308
    It is
    Yeah. So for example Kelly Sief here is traditionally a TKD guy. And has a stable of terrifying monsters.

    20201105_081036.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Mitlov

    Mitlov Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    183
    But you were posting about style versus style, not intensity versus intensity.

    If Rafael Aghayev (professional karate athlete) was compared to a 50-year-old office worker or 14-year-old kid who did BJJ two hours per week for fun and fitness, it'd be a night-and-day difference too.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    17,782
    Likes Received:
    3,583
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Some folks are bringing a lot of emotional baggage to this discussion that doesn't need to be here.
    Interestingly, in a thread about competitive sport martial artists, you provide an excellent case in point.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    17,782
    Likes Received:
    3,583
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Tony, a similar picture of competitors (at any level) in any bjj school, not just black belts, would illustrate the same contrast. Even in the same school, frankly, a picture of the competitors and non-competitive athletes, though to a lesser degree.
     
  18. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    868
    Trophy Points:
    263
    It could be. However that meme was harder to find.
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    19,699
    Likes Received:
    4,989
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Yeah but what would his core group photo look like?

    Do fighters look like fighters?
     
  20. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    But then that should be what's used to illustrate the point. When you can easily find a picture of BJJ competitors and BJJ hobbyists (or TKD or kickboxing), there's no reason to complicate the point by adding in cross-style to the picture.123
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page