Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

[Steve]

The person who has actually fought outside of sports.

Haha. That genuinely made me laugh out loud.

 

[Steve]

Not really, since the situation of fighting are going to be different each time. I may have experience fighting a fat guy trying to smash my head in with a hammer, but that doesn't mean that I have experience dealing with a muscle head punching me in the face. The true question is which gives you a better base to deal with a situation, and that's going to be a martial art where you're dealing with pressure. Competitive arts give you that pressure.

To be fair. I don't entirely disagree with him. I mean, someone with actual experience fighting outside of a sport may have an advantage. It gets a little more complex when you're talking about people with roughly equivalent training, skill level, and different experiences.

What made me laugh is the implication that non-competitive martial artists have that experience of actually fighting outside of sport. I would be genuinely surprised if 1 in 1000 had any actual fighting experience at all.

 

[Hanzou]

What made me laugh is the implication that non-competitive martial artists have that experience of actually fighting outside of sport. I would be genuinely surprised if 1 in 1000 had any actual fighting experience at all.

As a person who came from a noncompetitive system into a competitive system, the delusion is extreme. Frankly if I had stayed in karate, I'd be dead today. That realization greatly disturbs me.

 

[RTKDCMB]

As a person who came from a noncompetitive system into a competitive system, the delusion is extreme.

Not everyone is deluded like you.

 

[Hanzou]

Not everyone is deluded like you.

No, but far too many are deluded like you.

 

[Graywalker]

Not really, since the situation of fighting are going to be different each time. I may have experience fighting a fat guy trying to smash my head in with a hammer, but that doesn't mean that I have experience dealing with a muscle head punching me in the face. The true question is which gives you a better base to deal with a situation, and that's going to be a martial art where you're dealing with pressure. Competitive arts give you that pressure.

Exactly, there are to many variables to claim an art is sufficient. Again, you do not seem to understand that the style is a very small percentage.

The only true pressure, is actual combat. Sure competition can help but, it means nothing if that is ALL you have done.

Why is it that you think, in an actual situation, that you will be fighting competition fighters.

To think only one specific system will work is ignorance. And, do you think full contact sparring started with the birth of MMA or the UFC? That is crazy to think so.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

As a person who came from a noncompetitive system into a competitive system, the delusion is extreme.

We all know that if you train the grappling art, you can do almost anything that you want to, your opponent will still be safe. But if you train the striking art, a powerful punch on the back of your opponent's head may kill him.

This is why most people who train the striking art don't like to get into true competition mode. You don't mind to compete in a BJJ, Judo, or wrestling tournament. But you may think twice when you compete in a golden glove boxing.

How to solve this problem that full contact striking art competition can be dangerous? I don't have answer for it.

 

[Hanzou]

Exactly, there are to many variables to claim an art is sufficient. Again, you do not seem to understand that the style is a very small percentage.

The only true pressure, is actual combat. Sure competition can help but, it means nothing if that is ALL you have done.

Why is it that you think, in an actual situation, that you will be fighting competition fighters.

To think only one specific system will work is ignorance. And, do you think full contact sparring started with the birth of MMA or the UFC? That is crazy to think so.

Uh no. If the style is doing something fundamental for example like teaching you footwork, endurance, and evasion, while also how to handle a punch and how to punch (Boxing), then that style is far more valuable to you than a style teaching you 500 year old movements where you mimic a dancing butterfly on a flower petal.

Take a woman who learns BJJ for example. She's going to know how to deal with a bigger, larger person on top of her trying to control her because she deals with that everyday in a BJJ class. A woman learning a standard karate or kung fu style would be completely lost in that situation because she's never dealt with it before.

And btw, I never said one specific system would work. I've always said there's a family of systems that will leave you better off than another family of systems that are stuck with myths and legends from hundreds of years ago.

If someone I knew were looking for martial arts to defend themselves, I would recommend them taking up Bjj, and then learn Boxing or Muay Thai, or go to a MMA gym.

 

[Hanzou]

We all know that if you train the grappling art, you can do almost anything that you want to, your opponent will still be safe. But if you train the striking art, a powerful punch on the back of your opponent's head may kill him.

This is why most people who train the striking art don't like to get into true competition mode. You don't mind to compete in a BJJ, Judo, or wrestling tournament. But you may think twice when you compete in a golden glove boxing.

How to solve this problem that full contact striking art competition can be dangerous? I don't have answer for it.

Yes, grappling arts definitely have a training advantage. With striking, the best you can hope for is how Boxing, Kickboxing styles, or Muay Thai deal with striking. Of those, I think Muay Thai will give you the most well rounded training, since it employs elbows, knees, clinch throws alongside kicks and punches.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes, grappling arts definitely have a training advantage. With striking, the best you can hope for is how Boxing, Kickboxing styles, or Muay Thai deal with striking. Of those, I think Muay Thai will give you the most well rounded training, since it employs elbows, knees, clinch throws alongside kicks and punches.

The striking art has a natural weakness, and that is the risk of the full contact training.

If all 100% grappling guys are willing to compete on the mat. But only 10% of the striking art guys are willing to compete in the ring, you may expect too much out of the striking art guys.

A full powerful throw on the soft mat is nothing. An elbow strike on the head can be deadly. It's not realistic to expect all striking art guys to compete in the ring.

 

[Hanzou]

The striking art has a natural weakness, and that is the risk of the full contact training.

If all 100% grappling guys are willing to compete on the mat. But only 10% of the striking art guys are willing to compete in the ring, you may expect too much out of the striking art guys.

A full powerful throw on the soft mat is nothing. An elbow strike on the head can be deadly. It's not realistic to expect all striking art guys to compete in the ring.

Again, Boxing, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, and MMA give you the template. Use that.

Hell, if Muay Thai can be practiced relatively safely, no other striking art has an excuse.

 

[dvcochran]

To be fair, the majority of people in the bottom pic aren't in their 20s. The majority of them are in their 30s and 40s.

Fair enough, but I was speaking of myself in my 20's. I had worked myself out of most of the overt personality by my late 30's. But had the switch for a long time. Could still turn it on if I had to.
It is great to see a group of people who love what they are doing. That applies to both pictures. Love the "Band of Brothers" mentality.
Go ahead and laugh but it is a real possibility that if you get some of those guys in the bottom picture outside the ring they could have real trouble in some conditions. But I suppose that is true for either picture. Walking a 1,000 miles in the other person's shoes and all. I have always said some of by best competition skill(s) had nothing to do with my MA training.

 

[dvcochran]

Not really, since the situation of fighting are going to be different each time. I may have experience fighting a fat guy trying to smash my head in with a hammer, but that doesn't mean that I have experience dealing with a muscle head punching me in the face. The true question is which gives you a better base to deal with a situation, and that's going to be a martial art where you're dealing with pressure. Competitive arts give you that pressure.

Ah, so now it is about pressure based training?
There is no way you can tell from the top photo whether the they have been involved in pressure based training or not. Hell, for that matter the lower picture could be akin to a group of gym guys that do nothing body build. All show, no go.
So, in short you are stereotyping don't you think?

 

[Hanzou]

Ah, so now it is about pressure based training?
There is no way you can tell from the top photo whether the they have been involved in pressure based training or not. Hell, for that matter the lower picture could be akin to a group of gym guys that do nothing body build. All show, no go.
So, in short you are stereotyping don't you think?

I wasn't talking about the picture particularly, but yeah you can tell the top pic is a group of people who don't pressure test.

 

[dvcochran]

I wasn't talking about the picture particularly, but yeah you can tell the top pic is a group of people who don't pressure test.

Hmm, you must be very perceptive. Don't judge a horse by it's color. But run with it. If you are wise you will learn or you will be taught sooner or later.

 

[Hanzou]

Hmm, you must be very perceptive. Don't judge a horse by it's color. But run with it. If you are wise you will learn or you will be taught sooner or later.

Even you said that the top pic was "sad". Why are you suddenly changing your opinion?

 

[dvcochran]

Even you said that the top pic was "sad". Why are you suddenly changing your opinion?

If I said 'sad' I should not have. I am sorry for that. I am not changing my mind. Just trying to get you to see the bigger picture. Narrow minded BJJ fanboys are sad. I did mean to say that.

 

[Hanzou]

If I said 'sad' I should not have. I am sorry for that. I am not changing my mind. Just trying to get you to see the bigger picture. Narrow minded BJJ fanboys are sad. I did mean to say that.

You initially viewing them as sad, and now regretting calling them “sad” certainly appears to be you changing your mind. Yes, narrow minded fanboys are a sad bunch, but dishonest people are an even sadder bunch.

 

[_Simon_]

I wasn't talking about the picture particularly, but yeah you can tell the top pic is a group of people who don't pressure test.

Wwwwwwwwwwow man. Just wow.

 

[Steve]