Any other Atheist here?

[Makalakumu]

Can the existence of 'all the other possible universes' really be proven wrong?

Do other universes really matter? How does another universe affect you? According to quantum mechanics, as soon as you observe something, "it" "chooses" which universe in which it will operate in. If you are an observer, you cannot choose to unobserve.

This will forever determine your path...

 

[Andrew Green]

Me a troll? Any assumtion based on science is a theism. You are placing your faith in the idea that your answers lie in science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

Theism is the belief in the existence of one or more gods or deities.

Science does not = Theism, unless you get your science through some science God whispering forumals in peoples ears and handing out physics equations carved in stone to guys on mountains.

 

[exile]

Yes the mere beilief that answers lie in future scientific discovery is a faith[/I]

It's not a faith at all. It's based on the concept of a useful working assumption: that a method of inquiry which has served us as a guide to knowledge in the past will continue to do so, and will continue to modify and revise its own previous conclusions. I don't know what your use of `mere' adds here, but science as a mode of observation. reasoning and testing has pretty well shown itself without competition over the past several thousands of year. Go from the Aristotelian view of the cosmos, to the Copernican, to the refinements of Kepler and Newton, to the perspective of modern physics, and you will find that each step added greater generality while preserving the correct results of the previous `best theory'. Newton showed that the same mathematical relations which govern the motions of the planets also governed the behavior of billiard balls and out of control vehicles on planet Earth. Special relativity showed that the same modifications to Newton's theory necessitated by the constancy of the speed of light for all observers also accounted for the otherwise inexplicably long life of certain very short-lived particles travelling at nearly the speed of light... Science isn't a belief system, it's a method of inquiry which demands that you apply the most economical reasoning possible to data, formulate conclusions that accord with your observations and then keep those conclusions in mind when you encounter new data.

Imagine someone in the 15th century saying the above line that I've quoted from you by way of dismissal of a doctor's belief that someday we will find a way to eliminate smallpox. It doesn't play any better in the early 21st century, Sean. We may be wrong about our conclusions, but we know how to find out that we are and make corrections. Do `theisms' do that?

... A personal god? Your concept of God does not limit theism.
Sean

It's not my concept. It's a dictionary definition. Check out the Oxford English dictionary, or any of a dozen others. You're the one using the word `theism'---OK, well, that's what the word means---as you'd expect, given its etymology, right? If you mean something else, use a different word whose meaning coincides with your intention. My concept of God isn't the issue here; your statements are what are issue.

 

[Cruentus]

ugghhh. Do I have to go through this on every board I go to.

1st of all, to get off topic for a bit, awesome avatar! You might be interested in some of the threads I started regarding dogs. One is pics of us doing SAR, and another is an anti BSL thread in the study.

Back on topic...

to answer your question above, if you go to every board and start a thread saying "I'm an Athiest, what do you think of..." then yes. When you put an opinion or belief out in a public forum, you have to expect that some will disagree and have a different view, and may debate your stance.

 

[The Master]

"If there are gods, they do not help, and justice belongs to the strong: but know that all things done before the naked stars are remembered."
- Klingon proverb

"I've begun worshipping the Sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the Sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate."
-- George Carlin, Brain Droppings

"In the ******** Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to ********, big-time, major league ********, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims: religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest ******** story ever told.

Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you.

He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good ******** story. Holy ****!
-- George Carlin Politically Incorrect, May 29, 1997

"You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think he's a good actor. Okay. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't **** around. Doesn't **** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with. For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog. Joe Pesci straightened that ****-sucker out with one visit.

I noticed that of all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers that I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50 percent rate. Half the time I get what I want. Half the time I don't. Same as God 50-50. Same as the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the rabbit's foot, and the wishing well. Same as the mojo man. Same as the voodoo lady who tells your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles. It's all the same; 50-50. So just pick your superstitions, sit back, make a wish and enjoy yourself."
-- George Carlin in concert


One is born. One lives. One dies. You can believe that paradise awaits you, that you come back, that angels protect you, or that ancient aliens are responsible for all that is wrong. Religion is there to give you strength when life hits lows, to guide you by a moral code that has been refined over time, to hold a community together.

In the end, though, it doesn't matter.

Add me to the Atheist list.

 

[Andrew Green]

to answer your question above, if you go to every board and start a thread saying "I'm an Athiest, what do you think of..." then yes. When you put an opinion or belief out in a public forum, you have to expect that some will disagree and have a different view, and may debate your stance.

Is that true?

If I where to post that "I am a Christian" would I get people saying "No, you're really still a buhdist" cause I think that's rather unique to people claiming athiesim

 

[crushing]

Is that true?

If I where to post that "I am a Christian" would I get people saying "No, you're really still a buhdist" cause I think that's rather unique to people claiming athiesim

I don't think you would get people claiming you're a buddhist, but you may get some people telling you that there is no real record of that particular Jesus having existed and comparing your God to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

 

[Cruentus]

Is that true?

If I where to post that "I am a Christian" would I get people saying "No, you're really still a buhdist" cause I think that's rather unique to people claiming athiesim

Really? I can recall many times when people have elluded to Christian beliefs on this board to be told that their beliefs were all illusions, that Jesus wasn't a person, and so forth. I can recall many times where Catholicism gets bashed, as well as Islam. The list goes on.

I'm not saying anyone's a martyre, but I don't think people are playing favorites, either.

I do think that if one puts up an opinion, belief, philosephy, or idea on a forum, one has to be prepared that a discussion will ensue and that some may disagree.

 

[The Master]

I do think that if one puts up an opinion, belief, philosephy, or idea on a forum, one has to be prepared that a discussion will ensue and that some may disagree.

Yup. One would also hope that such discussion would be done in a grown up manner. Sadly, most places I've been they quickly break down to insults, mud, and threats of physical violence by narrow minded morons who haven't progressed much past the discovery of fire mentally.

 

[Cruentus]

Yup. One would also hope that such discussion would be done in a grown up manner. Sadly, most places I've been they quickly break down to insults, mud, and threats of physical violence by narrow minded morons who haven't progressed much past the discovery of fire mentally.

People do tend to get very emotional with religious or philosophical topics.

I will say that the people on this board aren't that bad, however. Some things end up in the toilet, but I have read and been in some good discussions that would gone completely South in other forums...

 

[The Master]

Very true. One of the reasons I signed up.

 

[exile]

Yup. One would also hope that such discussion would be done in a grown up manner. Sadly, most places I've been they quickly break down to insults, mud, and threats of physical violence by narrow minded morons who haven't progressed much past the discovery of fire mentally.

Ah, but MT is different: we have very vigilant Moderators who keep things from getting ad hominem pretty effectively---given all the threads they have to moderate---and responding to way off-thread topics. And what Tulisan says is quite true---the people who gravitate to and stay on MT seem to be way more reasonable than people on other boards, which is one of the main reasons why I too signed on. And people are pretty good about reminding each other about the need for civility, I've noticed.

 

[CoryKS]

To me being a open atheist in society can be rough. You get accused of having no values. Of worshiping science. Of trying to be a know-it-all who wants to ruin Christmas for everyone. Even liberal religious people will put you down. Thats one of the reasons their are so many militant atheist today. You almost have to be unless you want to stay in the atheist closet.

Really? I've never had that problem. I find that the topic never comes up. I think the militant ones are annoying, however. They tend to be as dogmatic as the fundamental Christians. And, let's face it: they are ruining Christmas for everyone. I love Christmas. Best time of year. You know, Santa Claus, and ho-ho-ho, and mistletoe, and presents to pretty girls. The only people who bring it up are lefties who mistake me for a conservative (I'm mostly libertarian, with qualifications). They'll ask me how I can be for this or that when Jesus said such-and-such. I ask them what made them think I was a Christian. The look on their face, she is priceless!

 

[Ram]

1st of all, to get off topic for a bit, awesome avatar! You might be interested in some of the threads I started regarding dogs. One is pics of us doing SAR, and another is an anti BSL thread in the study.

Back on topic...

to answer your question above, if you go to every board and start a thread saying "I'm an Athiest, what do you think of..." then yes. When you put an opinion or belief out in a public forum, you have to expect that some will disagree and have a different view, and may debate your stance.

Thanks I love dogs! I am getting my APBT mix and my Shepard mixes paw prints tattooed on me this weekend

Well the reason I am surprised at the response is that I was asking for the opinion of other atheist. I did not mean for this to turn out to be another thread where I had to discuss atheism misconceptions.

 

[Ram]

LoL been their done that:ultracool

The only people who bring it up are lefties who mistake me for a conservative (I'm mostly libertarian, with qualifications). They'll ask me how I can be for this or that when Jesus said such-and-such. I ask them what made them think I was a Christian. The look on their face, she is priceless!

I am more of Independent conservative myself. Which is hard to do at least where I live you are either conservative religous or liberial spiritual/non religous. So I can not hang with the conservatives but I have had some sucesse in getting liberals I know to start being more "hawk like".

 

[Ram]

Can the existence of 'all the other possible universes' really be proven wrong?

To not believe in something you do not need to be prove it wrong.It has to have enough evidence in the first place to exist. Take Zeus for instance. I am not worried about Zeus and neither are the Christians I know. Why,because we know that their is no logical reason to worry about Zeus and to your average Christian you would not need to prove all realities wrong before they would stop believing in Zeus.I would have to submit some pretty substantial evidence to a christian to get them to believe in Zeus.
To me the whole argument "you can not be an atheist because we do not know everything yet" is pretty flimsy and if it were true we would all be polytheist.

 

[michaeledward]

~snip ~
For those who believe in science as the guiding force in the universe, science may well be their religion, thus it becomes, for some people, a theistic belief. ~ Snip ~

While I tend to think the highlighted clause is poorly phrased representation of the underlying idea, some of the arguments put forth seem to indicate this phrase is the underlying idea.

As an athiest, I do not believe science guides anything. Science does not lead, science does not follow. Science is a tool which we (clever primates) can interpret the natural forces that do guide the universe.

Light allows us to see the coffee table in the middle of the room - but light is not the coffee table in the middle of the room.

Light is to Coffee Table as Science is to Universe.

 

[Floating Egg]

I was wondering if their are any other Atheists on this board? How do you deal with the more metaphysical aspects of martial arts? What type of martial arts are interesting to you and why? Anything else that would make good conversation would be great!

I have identified myself as an atheist in the past, but I'm not sure how useful it is anymore. How can I not believe in something that doesn't exist? To my knowledge we don't have a word for people that don't believe in leprechauns or pink unicorns, so why should we have one for people that don't believe in deities?

I've been practicing Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu for a couple of years, but I'm thinking about moving on. I'm not sure what I'm interested in, but I'm going to go out of my way to avoid people that believe in woo-woo stuff.

 

[MBuzzy]

As far as your beliefs and martial arts go, I don't think that they have anything to do with each other. Whether I believe in god or not is not going to make me kick any higher, or grant me the ability to perform a throw better, or more importantly, praying to a god will not allow me to defend myself when the time comes. Only training will do that.

So you ask how people deal with the more metaphysical aspects of the martial arts...As with this entire discussion, that question depends solely on your definition of terms. Most philosophical arguments or disagreements begin with a lack of common definition.

Main Entry: meta·phys·i·cal
Pronunciation: -'fi-zi-k&l
Function: adjective
1 : of or relating to metaphysics
2 a : of or relating to the transcendent or to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses b : [SIZE=-1]SUPERNATURAL[/SIZE]
3 : highly abstract or abstruse; also : [SIZE=-1]THEORETICAL[/SIZE]
4 often capitalized : of or relating to poetry especially of the early 17th century that is highly intellectual and philosophical and marked by unconventional imagery
- meta·phys·i·cal·ly /-k(&-)lE/ adverb

How do I deal with the supernatural aspects? Well, people only fly in Chinese martial arts movies.

The abstract or abtruse aspects...I believe that the only "belief" or lack thereof that can influence your practice of martial arts is your belief in yourself. Your mind, your feelings, and your composure are more powerful than any belief...in fact, they are what dictate your beliefs.

 

[bydand]

This is entertaining so far. Lets see where we end up, I'm interested in this discussion/thread and while I'm going to withold my personal thought and feelings, I will read and maybe even learn something new. opcorn::drinkbeer