An interesting way to flow...

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by geezer, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    I've never met Keith Kernspecht, the famous WT master from Germany, although technically I suppose he would be my Si-Hing since we both trained under the same Chinese sifu many years ago. I'd heard a lot about him, but until the last year or two he didn't have much featuring himself on youtube. Now there's a ton of stuff out there and I must say it's different! I find it really interesting. Any thoughts?





    and also this one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im0aADfrBZU&feature=related

    BTW Regarding rank, I think it works like this:

    The mostly red with a bit of white Star-Trek shirts = Command Level/Bridge Officer
    The mostly white with a bit of red Star Trek shirts = Junior Officer, Security Personell, etc.
    White shirt only = expendable extra, probably no speaking lines, may get killed off at any moment...
    Black Frock = Mighty Klingon Overlord!
     
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  2. Stealthy

    Stealthy Blue Belt

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    It's Johnny English in the flesh. I do believe you have found Rowan Atkinson's stunt double.
     
  3. Colibri

    Colibri Yellow Belt

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    His rooting is incredible. That second video :O
     
  4. Vajramusti

    Vajramusti Master Black Belt

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    "Geezer"- I was impressed with his timing in deflecton while seated on a chair.

    joy chaudhuri
     
  5. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

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    I only watched halfway through the first one , it takes ages to watch clips on my connection.
    It was not classical or traditional by any stretch of the imagination , but I liked it.

    He makes a lot of use of the neck pulling hand and some facial controls to force takedowns , also with a few quite unconventional strikes thrown in for good measure.

    He has integrated this stuff very well with what we would consider the more normal techniques , and shows that Wing Chun can be more than just hammering people in the face with punches and breaking their legs with low kicks.

    Even though he demonstrated a lot of lethal force moves , a lot of those takedowns could be slightly modified to cause minimal damage to the attacker , thus giving the practitioner another more humane option other than having to go 'Nuclear' with the continuous punching and low kicking.
     
  6. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Mook, the guy I train under now (occasionally, that is --he lives 1,000 miles away in Texas!) studied under Keith Kernspecht when he was stationed in Germany years back. He tells me that over there they have a body of "traditional" or "classical" techniques and also an expanding set more innovative techniques that are still based on the "classical" concepts but non-classical in form and application . I think these clips show a lot of that newer stuff... but I really don't know. My training was more old-fashioned (Chinese), and frankly, I never reached that high a level. From what I see, I'd would like to get deeper into this new stuff.
     
  7. Nabakatsu

    Nabakatsu Brown Belt

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    Looks quite interesting, thanks for posting!
     
  8. Eric_H

    Eric_H Black Belt

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    Everything looks good against non-resisting opponents with no root.

    Are there a few nice things in there? Yep.

    Would I ever be caught moving like that? Nope ;) Violates WC center line too much.
     
  9. hunt1

    hunt1 Green Belt

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    Nonsense ! Complete nonsense! All one has to do is watch his body and you will know. Worse this is a demo against the most compliant folks I have seen. If you cant maintain your body structure and integrity in this situation then you have no idea about it, how to use it or how to teach it.

    There are some nice superficial techniques but if you have actually been in a fight with a trained opponent you will know how far these will get you. Good stuff against drunks and the impaired and the gullible if that's your cup of tea.
     
  10. Nabakatsu

    Nabakatsu Brown Belt

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    It's up to everyone to decide what they believe.
    I do know this, I Was recently doing lat sau (chain punch sparring/drill for lack of a better short explanation) with a master of my system, I was doing my best, and I must have looked like it was my first day, my attempts to stay true to what I knew did not succeed. I'm guessing sometimes when people demo, and know they have almost 0% chance of success, they are resigned to failing before they try.
    Looks like he may be running wild with some biu tze, I Really don't know, but I doubt he would throw away all of his skill for ineffective movements.
     
  11. MaikuB

    MaikuB White Belt

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    Ah I thought he looked familiar. I'd seen one of his vids before when it was posted somewhere else iirc

     
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  12. zepedawingchun

    zepedawingchun Black Belt

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    I think that was called 'Advanced Three Stooges' training.

    The Three Stooges are the original kung fu masters of the old styles of kung fu.
     
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  13. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Now that was, er.... different, wasn't it? Oh BTW, here's one of the guys in your clip, Victor Gutierrez. Used to be an EWTO guy. Now he's doing his own thing. Doesn't look much like the previous clips though. It does look like his students get used to taking hits, though.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5-xerFRe8&feature=related

    H
    ere's some light sparring with a little more give and take. Definitely not "classical" WC at all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-smYG91wqCA&feature=related
     
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  14. hunt1

    hunt1 Green Belt

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    That last video is quite sad. It not wing chun at all. Its a really lousy interpretation of MT and boxing. What is the point of spending years and thousands of $ learning and training wing chun if you are going to fight like a MT fighter or a boxer? Your money and time would be better spent learning boxing and MT.

    If a teacher can't fight effectively with wing chun and can't teach it effectively why would anyone pay him to learn wing chun?

    As for the other video other than stroking his ego and intimidating students,which I realize is part of the WT teaching methodology, what is the point? Pak my arm and I will go of on you and you will be impressed with me? Looked like a WT version of pull my finger.

    Also watch the very beginning of the chi sau. Look at the over exaggerated swaying back and forth. Anyone with solid structure not only wouldn't sway back and forth with him but would clean his clock up the center.

    I fully understand what KK and his minions are trying to do and I know where they got the idea from. This is what happens where you imitate instead of getting actual instruction.
     
  15. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    You are correct. This guy, Victor Gutierrez, is not teaching Wing Chun. He left WT to promote this stuff which is some kind of combination of an MMA approach with blended with Wing Chun and Escrima. I believe he's calling it Wing Revolution. Odd name, that.

    Not sure what "KK" has to do with this. VG has totally left Wing Chun (and the EWTO) so he's not a "minion" of anybody. Looks more like a "raging bull" to me ...but not one I'd fancy taking on! LOL123
     

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