am i over looking judo for real self defence?

[Laplace_demon]

I am talking style vs style, which the early cage fights were. The discussion was striking vs grappling.

 

[elder999]

I am talking style vs style, which the early cage fights were. The discussion was striking vs grappling.

And here, I have to interject-the discussion was whether judo was useful for self-defense. Not even whether or not it's better than any other striking or grappling art, but simply whether it's any good for self-defense. Several of your statements have revealed that you really have no idea about the utility of judo, ala the "open to a punch or kick when trying to grab" statement. (Ever consider how open to being grabbed you are when you throw a punch or kick? )

 

[Dirty Dog]

Which part of grandmaster streight wise don't you understand? Are you intentionally not trying to understand?

Well, we can start with "streight wise". I'm a native born English speaker with a reasonable education. I aware of the word "streight" as an archaic spelling of "strait" of course, but in the context of your statement, neither spelling makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[Laplace_demon]

And here, I have to interject-the discussion was whether judo was useful for self-defense. Not even whether or not it's better than any other striking or grappling art, but simply whether it's any good for self-defense. Several of your statements have revealed that you really have no idea about the utility of judo, ala the "open to a punch or kick when trying to grab" statement. (Ever consider how open to being grabbed you are when you throw a punch or kick? )

I am less exposed than attempting to throw someone. It's executed faster and causes more damage when done accurately. I can guard myself while executing the kick also.

The downsides to kicking are not connecting properly to the target and getting ready to adjust. Those factors are down to skills and a certain amount of luck, which cuts both ways.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Well, we can start with "streight wise". I'm a native born English speaker with a reasonable education. I aware of the word "streight" as an archaic spelling of "strait" of course, but in the context of your statement, neither spelling makes any sense whatsoever.

Fine, substitute it with "skill" and you might get it.

 

[ballen0351]

Thank you Elder I was sitting here trying to figure out how we went from a 17 month old thread on the self defense aspects of Judo to now "why there are no TKD grandmasters in the Ufc"

 

[elder999]

I am less exposed than attempting to throw someone. It's executed faster and causes more damage when done accurately. I can guard myself while executing the kick also.

The downsides to kicking are not connecting properly to the target and getting ready to adjust. Those factors are down to skills and a certain amount of luck, which cuts both ways.

As someone who's been doing judo and karate since before he was 11, boxed Golden Gloves, and practiced a few other martial arts along the way, I have to say that your first two sentences are simply not true-and demonstrate your lack of judo knowledge.
When it comes to self-defense, "exposed" is "exposed." In both instances, there's an element of exposure-but the judoka, in a self-defense situation, is just as likely to wait to defend against a committed attack from a striker as he is to attempt to preemptively "attempt to throw someone." I'm not likely to throw someone without their help, in the form of a committed attack.

Of course, these days, I'm far more likely to pull out a weapon and use it......

 

[ballen0351]

No, I am saying the skill level between competitors is not fair. There are no exceptional TKD guys that have ever fought grapplers. If there are they are in a minority and would not be representative.

Not fair? Im not sure what that even means. You honestly believe there has never been a TKD guy fight a grappler in all the history of the world?

 

[Laplace_demon]

Not fair? Im not sure what that even means. You honestly believe there has never been a TKD guy fight a grappler in all the history of the world?

In 1993, all styles of martial arts were allowed to compete and Royce Gracie (BJJ) won. He fought a kickboxer/TKD guy, wrestler and won. People since that time believe, since the UFC is dominated by people from wrestling or BJJ backgrounds, that striking arts such as kickboxing, Muay Thai and TKD are inferior to grappling arts if you were to put them against each other.

I submit this is wrong and down to the individual. I have not heard of any prominent Tae Kwon Do fighter ever involved in a challenge match of style vs style. And by prominent I mean dedicated, techniqually honed practitioner in the art, signified by a 5th Dan achievement under a respectable organisation. Someone who one could label a grandmaster technique wise.

 

[Laplace_demon]

As someone who's been doing judo and karate since before he was 11, boxed Golden Gloves, and practiced a few other martial arts along the way, I have to say that your first two sentences are simply not true-and demonstrate your lack of judo knowledge.
When it comes to self-defense, "exposed" is "exposed." In both instances, there's an element of exposure-but the judoka, in a self-defense situation, is just as likely to wait to defend against a committed attack from a striker as he is to attempt to preemptively "attempt to throw someone." I'm not likely to throw someone without their help, in the form of a committed attack.

Of course, these days, I'm far more likely to pull out a weapon and use it......

So what you are saying is that Judo works in defence but not offence? I can attack as well as counter, without having to get into his face. Can a judo exponent say the same? What is he supposed to do if the fight is not close range? My reach is far greater with my kicks, and I don't need to get close into my opponent for a strike.

 

[ballen0351]

In 1993, all styles of martial arts were allowed to compete and Royce Gracie (BJJ) won. He fought a kickboxer/TKD guy, wrestler and won. People since that time believe, since the UFC is dominated by people from wrestling or BJJ backgrounds, that striking arts such as kickboxing, Muay Thai and TKD are inferior to grappling arts if you were to put them against each other.

I submit this is wrong and down to the individual. I have not heard of any prominent Tae Kwon Do fighter ever involved in a challenge match of style vs style. And by prominent I mean dedicated, techniqually honed practitioner in the art, signified by a 5th Dan achievement under a respectable organisation. Someone who one could label a grandmaster technique wise.

you do understand people have been competing LONG before 1993. And all over the world. One competition in 1993 really means little in the grand scheme of things

 

[ballen0351]

So what you are saying is that Judo works in defence but not offence?

Nope thats not what he is saying. There is more to Judo then throws. I use takedowns in the offense at work often. I use arm bars and wrist locks at work all the time.

I can attack as well as counter, without having to get into his face. Can a judo exponent say the same?

Yep they can say the same

What is he supposed to do if the fight is not close range?

Move in closer. Its not hard Its one of the main elements of several martial art styles to get inside

My reach is far greater with my kicks, and I don't need to get close into my opponent for a strike.

Until they get inside of your kicks and cancel out your range

 

[elder999]

So what you are saying is that Judo works in defence but not offence? I can attack as well as counter, without having to get into his face. Can a judo exponent say the same? What is he supposed to do if the fight is not close range? My reach is far greater with my kicks, and I don't need to get close into my opponent for a strike.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

-sigh!-You just need to put your theory to the test with a well trained grappler. Good luck.

 

[Tez3]

In 1993, all styles of martial arts were allowed to compete and Royce Gracie (BJJ) won. He fought a kickboxer/TKD guy, wrestler and won. People since that time believe, since the UFC is dominated by people from wrestling or BJJ backgrounds, that striking arts such as kickboxing, Muay Thai and TKD are inferior to grappling arts if you were to put them against each other.

I submit this is wrong and down to the individual. I have not heard of any prominent Tae Kwon Do fighter ever involved in a challenge match of style vs style. And by prominent I mean dedicated, techniqually honed practitioner in the art, signified by a 5th Dan achievement under a respectable organisation. Someone who one could label a grandmaster technique wise.

So, in 1993 the UFC (which is only one of many MMA promotions) had a style v style type of competition and therefore this means that Judo is not good for self defence?
Who are these people that believe striking is inferior to grappling arts because I will show you plenty of evidence that people believe the opposite. The truth is that the UFC and other promotions are dominated by those who will sell tickets when they fight. Fights rarely prove which style is better than another, they are about individuals fighting MMA not any one style, the fighters have to be entertaining and popular ( either for being good or for being the baddie people love to hate )now and I don't think any promotion/company does style versus style competitions anymore.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Move in closer. Its not hard Its one of the main elements of several martial art styles to get inside

You speak as if it's easy to close the distance. It's not easy against a trained martial artists who doesn't want to. Is a modern judoka trained to block strikes to the face? Can he strike equally well himself(....) All of this is in the strikers favour. Judo as of today is a sport and needs striking to work.

 

[Tez3]

You speak as if it's easy to close the distance. It's not easy against a trained martial artists who doesn't want to. Is a modern judoka trained to block strikes to the face? Can he strike equally well himself(....) All of this is in the strikers favour. Judo as of today is a sport and needs striking to work.

What rank are you in Judo?

 

[Buka]

"There is no such thing as a wise young man."

And you can take that streight to the bank.

 

[ballen0351]

You speak as if it's easy to close the distance. It's not easy against a trained martial artists who doesn't want to.

You speak as if closing the distance isnt a major part of many arts including striking arts like Goju Ryu where we do it all the time.

Is a modern judoka trained to block strikes to the face?

Like anything else it depends on the school. Where I was taught Judo we were taught all of that and more

Can he strike equally well himself(....) All of this is in the strikers favour. Judo as of today is a sport and needs striking to work.

Judo has striking

 

[Laplace_demon]

Judo has striking

Equal to someone training 50% striking? I very much doubt it, given that Judo is a grappling art.

Goju Ryu has two branches of its modern schools. One is akin to modern shotokan, while the other is much tougher. Goju Ruy is really not saying a hole loth, unless this is clarified.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I am less exposed than attempting to throw someone. It's executed faster and causes more damage when done accurately. I can guard myself while executing the kick also.

The downsides to kicking are not connecting properly to the target and getting ready to adjust. Those factors are down to skills and a certain amount of luck, which cuts both ways.

These statements don't show massive ignorance of how grappling works at all. Nope. Not at all.

Fine, substitute it with "skill" and you might get it.

And this doesn't show any ignorance of the subject either. Nope. Not a bit of it.